What would you do ?

by duncanr

Billy Dean Riley was shot dead by a female householder as he tried to break into her house. The woman was woken by her dog barking and called 911 to report an intruder. The transcript of her call has been released (see below)

Now a few things strike me as odd about this incident – which is why I am asking the question ‘What would you have done?’ if you had been in this lady’s situation.

For a start, intruders generally try not to make much noise when attempting to break in to a house. Yet Billy Dean Riley was making a helluva racket – almost like he was trying to wake someone inside to let him in?

The lady householder believed him to be drunk

In part of her conversation with the 911 operator she says Riley broke into her garage. She also says -
“He doesn’t know where his pickup’s at”

Now I don’t claim to be Sherlock Holmes but this all suggest that Riley was drunk as a skunk, got confused, ended up at wrong house, couldn’t open door with his key, kicked, battered door trying to attract attention of someone (wife/girlfriend?) inside to let him in. Went into the garage, didn’t see his pickup. Still thinking he was at his own house, thought his car had been stolen or he had left it somewhere?

Just my interpretation – not saying it’s right – and have to remember Lady was frightened. But still . . . .

So if you were in her shoes would you have shot Billy Dean Riley?

TRANSCRIPT OF 911 CALL

RESIDENT – “Oh crap he’s coming around the front…”

911 – “Is your front door locked?”

RESIDENT – “Yes ma’am but it’s only got a lock on the handle.”

911 – “Okay, do you have a place inside your house and lock yourself in a room?”

RESIDENT – “Uh, not really.”

911 – “He’s trying to come through the front door.”

RESIDENT – “i’ve got a big shotgun. I’m not going into a tiny bathroom…”

RESIDENT – “He’s walking around the house trying to find a way in…”

RESIDENT – “Oh crap, he’s at the back…”

911 – “Okay , (unintelligible) is advising that you can defend your property if you need to.”

RESIDENT – “Alright he’s at the garage.”

911 – “He’s at the garage? Is it attached to your house?”

RESIDENT – “Nope, he’s at the patio door again.”

911 – “I can hear him banging again.”

RESIDENT – “I don’t want to have to kill this man, but i’ll kill him graveyard dead ma’am.”

911 – “I understand.”

RESIDENT – “Alright.”

RESIDENT – Oh crap he’s breaking in. he’s breaking in now, he’s breaking in now. He’s breaking the window, i’m going to kill him. He’s walking back and forth on the porch. He looks to be an older man, I don’t want to kill him. He’s kicking the door please hurry. He’s going to make it in please hurry ma’am. I think he’s drunk . He doesn’t know where his pickup’s at. God I don’t want to kill this man.”

RESIDENT – “I cant keep this gun and keep on the phone darling, it’s a big shotgun, it will break my arm. As soon as you tell me they’re here im taking the safety, uh.. Im putting the safety back on this sucker.”

Source . . .

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33 Comments to “What would you do ?”

  1. Shoot the drunk bastard… Drunkenness is no excuse for idiot or reckless behavior… The lady was protecting herself… She deserves an award for bravery… I’d do exactly the same thing… Defense of property and self and family is a basic human right…

  2. She certainly perceived herself to be under threat but was she really? It was a scary situation and she was on her own and frightened but was her interpretation of events correct?

    Is lethal force acceptable on the mere suspicion of being under threat?

    Granted she was frightened and one doesn’t always think clearly when frightened but should she have perhaps considered other options?

    Such as -

    a. retreat to a locked room in the house or a room furthest from the front door and await the arrival of the police ?

    b. leave the house by the front door when she heard the intruder round the back ?

    • Responding to Dumb Dumb Duncan. You are an idiot of the highest order. For whatever reason, this drunk crazed man showed up at her door after midnight with violent actions. You ask if the threat was real? You moron bastard sonofa bitch, you need your ass kicked real hard. And you need a midnight visit from a miscreant similair to the worthless bastrd Billy Dean Riley. I hope you are placed in the same situation.

      • Hi Wayne

        If I had found myself in that situation – having phoned the cops, I would have left quietly by the front door while Riley was out the back and waited for the police to arrive, rather than jump to possibly wrong conclusion about his intentions with fatal consequences

        P.S. Nice of you to drop by :lol:

        • Duncan, I do not understand why anyone thinks that they should not defend themselves and their property. You honestly believe that you can rely on the police to protect you in your home. and protect your property and your family? Pathetic and naive I think. I do say this with respect and not in the manner of Wayne Mayfield. You are comfortable placing you and your family’s safety and well being on the police that are miles away at some donut shop and my need to stop by the toilet and get a pack of smokes before responding to your plea for help… while you face a criminal that may rob, pillage and rape your family… Insane… I will die before this f*cked government takes away my right to defend myself, my family and my property.

          God Bless the USA.

    • I think you need to put yourself in Mrs. Jackon’s position first. It was extremely cold that night. She was woken up by her barking dogs. She also was sober, meaning she had not made the decision to get drunk that night (or probably any other night).

      You would have her either go out the front door while a large, drunken man was wandering around her yard with no fear of her dog. You would have her wander around outside in a very remote area of the country in 30 degree Fahrenheit weather . Really? That would be ludicrous.

      Even more ridiculous is the idea that she should shut herself up in a tiny bathroom waiting for him to kick the door in. At what point IS a grandmother allowed to defend herself?

      It was stated that she told him she had a gun, was calling the police and that he had to leave. I’ve had people bang on my door in the middle of the night asking for help, even hysterically, but none of them ever made me feel threatened or yelled vulgarities at me. And it was understood that while I made the necessary phone calls that they should stay outside peaceably waiting for help to arrive.

      A reasonable person does not need to throw furniture through a door in order to gain entrance. Clearly, a very unreasonable person does this, and the homeowner was brave and correct to shoot him dead. I realize you probably live in a heavily populated area and do not realize how very alone one is in a rural state like Oklahoma. When it takes the police 20 minutes to respond to an attempted break in, where even the dispatcher can hear the violent rhetoric of the intruder, that is rural America.

      My grandmother lived on a farm in Bow Legs, Oklahoma, on a road coming out of Seminole. She kept a loaded shotgun next to every door in her house, plus a few other rooms in the house. She also fed hobos who wandered down the highway. One night while I was there a hobo came to the porch and demanded entrance after she fed him on the porch. She gave him one warning, and still tried to get in. She snatched up the shotgun and pointed it at him, and still he tried to get in. She put so much buckshot in that man that he probably died after crawling back to the road. That’s not something we ever investigated either. I’m sure I was shocked, but my grandmother who was born in 1898 was made of sterner stuff. She relocked all the doors after clearing his dinner from the porch, then proceeded to play a game of cards with me until bedtime. She said some people are just down on their luck and some are rabid dogs. I understood that to mean that you shoot rabid dogs, period. The subject was never discussed again.

      Billy Dean Riley grew up in that same culture. He probably knew the rules the same as I do, but underneath his human skin apparently lay a rabid dog.

      • Hi Cherryl

        Thanks for dropping by and thanks for sharing the story of your gran

        • You’re welcome. I thought if you had some insight into the ‘merkin mindset it would help–especially if delivered in a respectful way. The Okies are a mean, no-nonsense group of people, all the way down to the elders among them. Half of them are disenfranchised Swedes mixed with disenfranchised Choctaw, and they don’t take surveys. I think that Mrs. Jackson had already gone down the route of “WTF do you want?” because she seemed like a reasonable person throughout the ordeal, and she told the 911 operator that she had told him she was armed, calling the police, and to go away.

          The bloodthirsty stated intention that she would shoot him graveyard dead is in keeping with the character of Oklahoma folks, and was most likely just bravado and posturing under the circumstances. She would have been taught to “shoot to kill” by the people who taught her how to point and shoot that gun. I got the same training, though I’m a good shot and probably would go for the knees if possible. But the shooting was entirely informed by the actions of Billy Dean as he broke down the door with patio furniture, then kicked in the door to gain entry. I’m in Missouri at the moment, next door to Oklahoma. I pray that nobody bangs on my door and wakes me up tonight. I’ll have to hurt them. Damned jehovah’s witnesses! >^;^<

  3. based solely upon what you posted duncan… This guy was on HER property, breaking into HER house, and threatening to damage/destroy/hurt either HER property or her body. Shoot him…

    I say Bullshit to retreating from an attacker on your own property? In my mind that’s insane and cowardly… I’m also not leaving my property so anyone can have their way with my stuff that I’ve spent a lifetime working for? Never.

    This is why I very much love the state of Texas USA. Where you can rightfully defend your homestead, property and self.

    hell yes…

  4. “We can stand here like the French … or we can do something about it.” ~ Marge Simpson

    How many French men does it take to defend Paris? Nobody knows and no French man has ever tried.

  5. Shoot and ask questions later I say :)

  6. Jeez, remind me not to get on the wrong side of you two :wink:

    Will be interesting to see how this story pans out – whether Billy Dean Riley was found to have any weapon on him when he was shot

  7. HELL YES …. I WOULD HAVE SHOT HIM!!!!!

    Turn the tables a bit …. what if he was just PRETENDING to be arseholes drunk?

  8. Interesting the responses so far to the question have all been in favour of shoot first ask questions later.

    I think I’m right in saying that if this incident had happened in UK the lady in question would now be in police custody on a charge of Manslaughter.

    UK law allows a householder to use ‘reasonable force’ against an intruder. It is then up to a judge and jury to decide what constitutes ‘reasonable’ force in any given situation.

    In a celebrated case a few years ago, a UK farmer (Tony Martin) was convicted and jailed for Manslaughter for shooting dead a burglar.

    In that case the jury dismissed the defense argument that he had shot the burglar because he was in fear of his life – since the burglar was not armed and far from threatening the farmer he was actually running away from the property at the time he was shot, as the bullets in his back certified.

  9. thankfully it’s not legal for me to own a gun in Australia so I would never have to make the choice.

    I’m with you duncan – run out the front door while he’s round the back

  10. It is interesting to read the comments based on the little information posted here about the incident.

    Riley BROKE INTO the woman’s house by throwing a chair into her patio door window. HE initiated the violence and she had EVERY right to defend herself.

    Her house is located just outside of Cushing Oklahoma, I have been there and it is practically in the middle of nowhere. In fact, in the actual call the 911 operator says that the police are six miles away!!

    Mrs. Jackson repeatedly expresses regret over shooting Riley to the 911 operator so its not like she is some gung-ho toting TEXAN!!

    What is not mentioned here is that Riley had wandered away from his truck which he had crashed into a ditch near by. Inside the truck was his passed out sister whom he had been drinking and doing narcotics with.

    Here is a link to the actual 911 call:

    http://feeds.newsok.tv/services/player/bcpid1681694480?bctid=54313835001

  11. Dumb Duncan huh? :lol:

    WHO LET GARTH OUT? :shock:

    • There are always people who revert to type, and resort to abuse when faced with opinions that are at odds with their own. That was true on both sides of the old and tiresome McCann argument.

      Cat God does not share Duncan’s view on this topic, but expresses himself with passion and eloquence, Wayne does not – I know which of the two I would trust to own a gun and use it responsibly.

      For my take on this one – Like CatGodFrank, I don’t share Duncan’s faith in the police either. I would knock the bastard (riley, not duncan) senseless with a cricket bat or perhaps use No1 son’s wakizashi (a short sword) and claim self defence.
      UK law has got its head up its own arse as far as protecting the victims of crime goes, and there is an army of greasy-palmed, weasel-worded lawyers willing to take action against anyone on any basis if they think there is money in it for them, who would doubtless be willing to sue the arse off me for defending myself.
      But, things are slowly changing, and the days of Tony Martin are coming to an end. In that case that Duncan mentioned, the family of the little bastard that Martin shot tried suing him for the loss of family income that they suffered as the pond-life was no longer around to go out stealing.

      A copper once told me, that if I saw someone breaking into the house, for fuck’s sake wait unitl he was in before I hit him, as I couldn’t prove self defence if he was halfway through a bedroom window at the time.

  12. That’s interesting, the hyperlink to Wayne Mayfield seems to be broken; like his manners…

  13. Some years ago, me and Mrs D went to Cardiff for a boozy weekend with some friends. Early hours of the morning, I was awoken by some noise at the door – banging and swearing. I opened the door to find a very drunk man standing there (well swaying, if you insist on accuracy). The ensuing conversation went something like this –

    Me – what the fuck ?
    Him – what the fuck??
    Me – what the fuck do you think you’re doing?
    Him –‘what the fuck do you think you’re doing ??
    Me – What do you mean what do I think I’m doing? What the fuck are you doing
    Him- What do you mean what do I think I’m doing? What the fuck are you doing
    Me – I’m trying to get a fucking sleep. Now fuck off
    Him – I’m trying to get a fucking sleep. What the fuck are you doing in my room?

    At last we were getting somewhere. We were in room c23. the drunk was in room c28 further along the corridor. There was much drunken apologies as I helped him find his own room

    Course if I was Wayne and armed with a gun I would probably have shot him dead then claimed self-defence arguing I’d killed him before he got into the room, beat me up, and raped Mrs D :roll:

  14. The only reason to go to Cardiff, to get drunk… or pehaps shoot Wayne?

  15. I have many happy (if somewhat hazy) memories of getting drunk in Cardiff :lol:

  16. I’ve a solution.

    Shoot the fucker, but shoot him in the leg. He won’t die most probably, and he won’t be able to perform any nefarious acts should the whole drunkness be a cunning ruse. Leave him where he is, call the Police and let them clear him up.

    Best of both worlds.

    I’ve got to say that the woman in the police transcript does sound oddly eager to take his head off with her shotgun. I can understand she was scared and wanted to defend her home, but taking someones life for what, by all accounts, sounds exactly what duncan described it as is way over the top.

  17. One point I do agree with is these sheisty fucking laywers that defend criminals.

    I heard a story – I forget where – about a lady who was sued by an intruder. The reason? He cut himself on some pieces of a broken Vase she hadn’t cleared away when he was unlawfully entering her property through a window and required several stitches.

    He won compensation.

    If there is a more despicable story about the British legal system then I’m yet to hear it. It absolutely fucking appalls me.

    • I suppose the slimy lawyer argument could undermine your shot-in-the-leg strategy.

      Any halfway slippery twat of a lawyer would argue that if you had time to consider where to shoot, and to pick your spot, then it was deliberate assault and not an act of self defence.

      If there are any gobshite lawyers reading this, could you please advise?

  18. Solution for me is : Depends entirely on where you live!

    Any fecker that even so much as rattles my front gate is going to get threatened with his life!

    Where’s Wayne? Gone back to his world?

  19. Remind me never to call round at Wayne’s house :lol:

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