Shrien Dewani : Innocent or Guilty ?

by duncanr

The killing of Anni Dewani on her honeymoon in Capetown has raised questions about the role (if any) that her husband Shrien played in her death.

Both sides of the argument have been presented in comments submitted to Madhatters – some arguing that Anni’s death was orchestrated by her husband. Others (including some who know Shrien) arguing that he is incapable of such a deed, and is struggling to cope with the strain of these ‘false accusations’ on top of his grief at the loss of the woman he loved.

This is an ongoing investigation and . . .

further revelations may be expected – generating more discussion.

Most of the comments so far have been posted on the ‘Anni Dewani : Planned Murder ? thread (over 500 comments so far) – making it slow to load and read

I am therefore closing that thread to further comments and ask you instead to post your thoughts on Anni Dewali’s murder on this thread. This should make it easier to keep abreast of new comments

Although the ‘Planned Murder ?’ thread will be closed for new comments, they will still be available to be read.

There is a ‘Category Filter’ option on the menu bar at the right of this page (near the top). Click on the arrow and select ‘Dewani’ from the drop down list and the page will redraw to show all Madhatter posts specifically on this subject.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank all who have contributed comments so far and hope you will continue to do so on this new thread !

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294 Comments to “Shrien Dewani : Innocent or Guilty ?”

  1. With regard to the appointment of Clare Montgomery of Matrix Chambers as Shrien’s legal representative, he has chosen somebody of considerable experience in complex international cases. The fact that she has represented some questionable characters in the past only goes to demonstrate that if you find yourself in a tight corner and want the very best advice and defence, someone like her is just what you need – assuming you can afford her.

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  2. There was a comment yesterday regarding Shrien’s sister in law being from SA – this is another example of how information can become twisted and give rise to a whole new intepretation. She is from Portugal and she has a relative in SA – rest assured, they had nothing to do with this murder or the 2007 one that Shrien is being accused of.

    CCTV etc – very normal for a wife to remain by the pool side whilst the husband gets some currency from someone who offers better exchange rates than what the hotel offers – it is not just the service fee, but also the exchange rate. No matter how wealthy you are, you always hunt for the best rates. Only fools change money through hotels…

    A lot said in the previous blog, so who has the motive? You wont find one …. because there is none.

    Tongo has plenty of motive to lie. SA as a country has plenty to lose if this is seen as another local crime. Cele is offering no jail to the next criminal who co operates. I am so sure these crim’s are being coached on what to say.

    So answer – why would Shrien jeapordise his life, marriage, reputation…

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  3. By the way, does anybody have any idea what happened to Anni’s engagement ring?
    This report says Anni gave the robbers another ring with a stone in it, having hidden the £25K one:
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3241330/South-Africa-horror-husband-Shrien-Dewani-tells-all.html.
    Clearly the value of the ring far exceeds any other payments mentioned, even allowing for it to be fenced and rebuilt to avoid it being identified.

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  4. That is a good question, Why would Shrien risk such expensive items Anni and Shrien had, and pay the murderers a mere R15000. He is sure to have known that those valuables will also be taken away, once he is dropped off!

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    • Things like the expensive engagement ring etc were “risked” by Shrien for an obvious reason- to make it all look real.

      Wouldn’t it be odd indeed if Shrien had been “ejected” (official word) from the taxi with all their belongings?

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  5. @ DuncanR.. THANX for the new thread.. WAS a bit hectic scrolling up n down.. 🙂
    Did the THOUGHT ever cross your mind that he put himself @ RISK.. BECAUSE he thought HE MAY NEVER GET FOUND OUT…
    so risk..??.. What risk??… Pay EVERYONE ELSE to do the dirty job & he runs back home & hide behind Publicist, Lawyer etc..
    And in one of my posts from the other BLOG.. I did mention that I think Priyen (his Bro) KNOWS more about this & is “covering” up for Shrien.. (2 Diff versions of HOW they ended up in Gugs)..
    FOR CRYING OUT LOUD… EVEN NOW.. Anni’s Dad BEGS Shrien to come here to TELL THE TRUTH 😦
    Furthermore, a man whose daughter was BRUTALLY murdered in SA… STILL has PRAISE for the Country and it’s people…
    Says a lot.. wouldn’t you say…??

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  6. @ Martin… Reports here said that Anni’s RINGS were found underneath her/seat.. so THAT actually was 1 of the reasons that rules out ROBBERY as a MOTIVE…..
    A lot of people UNDERMINE SA Authorities & the investigation team.. JUST AS Shrien underestimated SA & thought he could get away without being “implicated”…BUT SA wldn’t be fighting to get him back here is THEY did’nt have an ace up their sleeve..
    They must surely have LOTSA evidence that may shock the world.. Sad YET True…

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  7. Gayathri, it is simple and straightforward, isn’t it. He paid them R15000 and let them keep the jewellery and other valuables 1) to make the murder seem like a hijacking and robbery 2) as further payment for the murder.

    As I have posted previously – Shrien and the hitmen did not count on being caught so quickly and so easily. Hence the choice of SA as the place for the hit – they were relying on the high crime rate, the so-called bungling police etc. And given this reasoning, they had the jewellery, the cell phones, the other valuables, which they could pawn on the black market and get money for it as extra payment for the hit. Also, IMO Anni was not supposed to be shot in the car – the car was supposed be to “missing” so that Tongo could claim from insurance.

    We also have heard that Shrien is cheap and dishonest – he blatantly LIED to the Lodge by claiming to be a travel agent and thereby securing a massive discount – and please no “he was out for a bargain and all indians look for a bargain – LYING so blatantly does not equal bargain hunting. To go the extremes of creating a fake website in order to secure a discount, says a lot about the man’s character to me.

    And we all have read evidence of Shrien’s dishonesty. “Anni wanted to see the nightlife in Africa as she has never been here before”. Then it was the driver’s idea. So if ANNI (according to our Bugs Bunny toothed- suspect) has not been to Africa before then does that mean that HE has been? He has never said “WE have never been to AFRICA/SA before – it was always ANNI has never been to AFRICA/SA – and we all know that that is another lie as she has visited Kenya and other places in Africa previously.

    btw, i thought you were not posting on this blog anymore… 😛

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  8. @Sheeda… LMAO… Some Humuor that made me smile , thru a tragic event like this… (Bugs-Bunny-Toothed Suspect)….He-he!
    Being an Indian , I do understand the “looking for a bargain” line… BUT THEN again.. with the cost of living in this day & age .. WHO DOESN’T..??… And YES looking for a bargain is a far cry from setting up FAKE details.. AND if 1 looks @ the bigger picture its not just called “dishonesty”.. It’s called …. “FRAUD”…………

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  9. Lee – there is a very, very subtle subtle difference between robbery and attempted robbery; rape and attepted rape. I think it is the same regardless of outcome. Intention is what matters, but law differentiates it.

    You need to understand that whilst the ring may have been left behind under the seat (and it was reported that Anni hid this right when the drama started), this does not mean the theives did not intend to take it as they did take away some items that they had obtained forcefully.

    If it was hidden, after the shooting, I dont think the car would have been in a condition for any crook to have been carefully hand searching under the car. Remember, shooting involves massive loss of blood and it cannot be controlled. Out of respect, no one needs to paint the picture here, but the motivation for any criminal would be to get away as quickly as possible.

    It is the same as what people are saying about the no rape angle and therefore this being Shriens organised hit etc etc – they may not have done it – or got round to it as in the panic, it looks like dear Anni got shot. Forensics said, the shot went through hand, then neck. so there must have been a struggle when the shot went off.

    The onlooker who saw the car first being opened said clearly it was a bloody sight and that there were also hand marked bruises on the thighs and removal of under clothing. Again, I find it hard for these thought to go through my mind in too much details as it is too hurtful.

    There is little doubt in my mind that these were total rogues who saw a beautiful, innocent victim – they got rid of the husband purely to have a chance at the girl when alone. I dont think murder was on their minds at that time – things just got out of control and she lost her life in the struggle to fight off these chaps …

    I see it so crystal clear what seems to have happened. It is not blind defence of Shrien. But:
    1) using a private chauffeur – i have done
    2) money changing on the black – I have done
    3) using these means to get best bed rates – not me, but my wife has done and I wanted to be as far from her as possible when she tried that
    4) obeying a thug who promises freedom, I too have done. Whilst I was alone at home when I had a knife held to my throat, I gave it all away as I have said before – they let the driver go, they told him he was beig let go and she would be dropped down the road and they wanted the car. A very hard call – a struggle ans they would have kileld him any way, then taken her. He chose the safe option, which wa sforced upon him any way…

    none of 1) 2) or 3) make me a murderer…

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    • Yes Andrew, none of the points 1,2 & 3 make you a murderer.

      BUT have you ever been ejected from the back of a VWSharan van under protest ; from the back window; a window which only opens 32cm – with a small glass ledge protruding upwards; and landed on the ground with NO visible marks to your body?????

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  10. Greetings
    I have been posting articles from Google Alerts practically on a daily basis but stopped late yesterday for the following reasons;

    i) There is a legal term “subjudice” which you all are aware of. In my opinion the South African Police and the media are in contempt of court. One or more suspects have accepted plea bargains and the trial has already begun in the Western Cape High Court. I spend a vast amount of time in that court and am no stranger to the law or what can happen in that court or lower courts. I’ve had numerous issues with the Director of Prosecutions as well as the National Prosecution Authority to the extent that I launched a website isaacvolkwyn.com in 2004. I’m returning to the High Court in March and no, not even I can discuss the details of the case – that would be in contempt of court.

    ii) Something does not gel and the reports began streaming in yesterday. Togo – the taxi driver accepted a plea bargain for his info. He claimed Shrien Dewani approached HIM to recruit the hit men. He was sentenced to 18 years in prison. Yesterday the new witness who was employed at the Protea Hotel claimed that Shrien had asked HIM to recruit the hit men. This means that one of the two main state witnesses is lying. What is even more infuriating is that for his info he won’t face prosecution at all. What the hell is going on here?

    If you like you can open a gmail account and set up Google alerts to see the reports as they roll in but I am switching off my Google alerts.

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    • Alexis – explain this again please – assume we are not legal people. RU saying we are all contempting the court? It is obvious something is so fishy – I said that yesterday, when Cele gave a no jail deal to the new suspect (no jail for being complicit in a murder…!) I cannot believe this – have you considered the possibility of both persons being liars to save their skin.

      But please explain this legal stuff about subjudice and how that relates to us and what you are saying we should be doing ….

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      • @Andrew Taking a short coffee break but I will respond.

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      • @Andrew , it was reported in http://www.herald.ie yesterday………
        A second man who allegedly helped set up the murder of the honeymooner Anni Dewani in South Africa may have been granted indemnity from prosecution in exchange for testifying about his role, it has emerged.

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      • The same old game of no shame…. Do you believe me now? I am going to set up a new gmail account and fwd the articles there and then send you the account details because I don’t want to post any links here. Heck, they are giving Shrien Dewani enough evidence to win this case…..but they must surely be aware of that and hey THEY ARE IN CONTEMPT OF COURT!!!!!

        http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Report-The-man-who-nailed-Shrien-Dewani-20101212

        Mbolombo has been granted indemnity from prosecution and will not be spending any time in jail if he testifies truthfully in Anni ¬Dewani’s murder trial.

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  11. @Sheeda/Gayathri… Women power LADIES… Lets keep it together here EVEN if our opinions Differ.. 🙂
    …. ANDREW.. I do agree with a LOT you say & I understand where you are coming from.. BUT I am sure that your wife
    did not CREATE false info JUST to get discounted prices….. That would be a step BEYOND, I would think…
    I do appreciate & know you believe Shrien is innocent in this & I RESPECT YOUR OPINION… But also, I am wondering WHY is it that you won’t accept any info brought to light that shows his character in a “negative” way..
    At the end of the day we all have GOOD .. and.. BAD sides to us.. & it may take something major FOR that BAD side to come out.. Nobody is GOOD all of the TIME…

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    • @Andrew

      I would not say that we are in contempt of court. We can comment & blog as much as we like. The media is allowed to report on court proceedings. They are also allowed to uplift court files and report on it. For example…The Argus printed a shitty story about one of my court cases and so I called them and asked them to hear my side of it and they said “Ms Volkwyn, the matter is subjudice and therefore we cannot print it.” SAPS, NPA & the media are as I said in my opinion in contempt of court. In so doing, they are blowing their case and giving Shrien Dewani every right to say that he won’t get a fair trial – please read the Criminal Procedure Act of 1977. What I therefore won’t do is to publish news articles which should not have been published in the first place.

      Re the lies you have referred to. Many years ago I called a senior detective at the National Police Commissioner’s offices and complained that either the NPA or SAPS was lying to me and he said the following “Have you ever considered the fact that both are lying?”. I was stumped and to this day whenever I recall that question I’m stumped. It is simply something that I find impossible to process. I hope that this answers your questions.

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  12. @ Lee – I have NO idea what you are referring to ….. lolol.

    I just can’t comprehend the blinkers some people have w.r.t. to BBTS (Bugs Bunny Tooth Suspect). And what get’s me really riled up is when posts which question his behaviour and character are posted – it is shot down with “it has already been discussed in the forum, it is SA trying to pin the blame on a foreigner, he is a good decent Hindu boy – blah blah blah bleh.

    IMO, BBTS is dishonest, a fraud and a coward. And as I have said previously I was and am fully convinced of his guilt and will say once again that someone who says in an interview immediately after his wife’s murder “I begged with them that if they were not going to hurt HER, then why don’t they let us go”. That statement will always be at the back of my mind w.r.t this case.

    We know it is not normal for hijackers in SA to let the male go. And yet, this cowardly male did NOTHING – no attempt at a struggle – no attempt to fight these so called hijackers off – made no attempt to SAVE his wife – not a single scratch on his body, no torn clothes – nothing. An utter coward. And if, by some stroke of a miracle, he is found not guilty – I hope that his cowardly act eats away at his conscience for the rest of his life as punishment and/or karma for his dastardly deed.

    Btw, I too am Indian – however not hindu indian. And i too, enjoy a bargain. But i have never stooped to the level of fraud in order to secure said bargains.

    BBTS needs to step up to the plate and be a MAN for once in his life.

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  13. Lee – I know him really well, that is why I refuse to accept some interpretations people have made – simply because they are in accurate. I read them all carefully and do think about them carefully. With all that has come out, he is far easier to dump the whole relationship but I won’t do that. You are right about people snapping at times.

    If rumours are to be believed, then he would have snapped on the plane because upto that point, things (100%) were pretty good. And he would have supposedly snapped so hard that after a short drive to the hotel from the airport, he stepped out of the car and immediately asked for a hit man.

    .. and whilst we are all confessing here, at the risk of losing all credibility here, I must admit that my wife DID say she was in the travel promotion business and did get a whopping discount. She did it so innocently and not expecting much back. As I said, I was so embarrassed, I wanted to walk a mile away and wanted nothing to do with it. But if I died on that trip, I would hope my wife would not be branded a killer…

    Lee – also, not one person has addressed the issue of motive – I have asked 5 times on this and previous blog. No one can give a rational supportable response.

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    • @Andrew…the motive..
      Up until last week it seemed from reports that money was the motive. But over the weekend a news report said money was not the motive because all of a sudden, Dewani’s business was not in financial difficulties! By Sunday SAPS said they were considering the motive could have been related to “sexual orientation”.

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      • MOTIVES in criminal cases often do not come out until the trial is in progress – it takes the skill of a good lawyer to do this.

        I am minded here about the Nisha Patel murder case in London UK – where her own husband- Fadi Nasri- hired 2 hit men to knife her to death. The motive was unclear to the UK Police but they could prove his guilt so proceeded with the trial. It was during the trial that it transpired that Fadi Nasri had bought a big Life Insurance policy on her life just prior to the murder.

        So I say – be patient regarding the motive in this case.

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  14. That’s the one word that’s been stuck in my mind ” “Motive” …. ? If there had been clear motive, there would have been no doubt to me “whodunnit”!

    Let’s take the “plea bargain” and the “indemnified from prosecution” elements out of the equation, and what are we left with?

    I’m still not convinced that Shrien had anything to do with it, I suspect so, but I’m not convinced!

    All four people implicated in the organisation of Anni’s death so far are not the type of people you would want to take home to meet your parents. They thought nothing of planning an event that would end in the death of another person, I find it difficult to believe anything they say!

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  15. @ Sheeda…???…lol Have you blanked out?..
    …………..@ Alexis… Yes , I too read the “sexual orientation” MOTIVE.. And YES it is possible enough reasoning for a “MOTIVE”…people DID murder for stranger reasons…
    @ Sheeda.. am wondering if this is not all about BBTS & HIS CARROT……..lol

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  16. LOL Lee! BBTS whacked me on the head with his carrot and i fainted. heehee

    I agree that the motive for murder can be anything or nothing. Serial killers, etc don’t really have a motive for killing someone – it’s all just about killing. People are murdered for looking at someone the “wrong way”, people commit murder in fits of anger, people commit murder when they are rejected, there are many reasons but not necessarily reason which make sense to a normal person.

    http://www.newstime.co.za/SouthAfrica/Dewani_Extradition_Battle_Will_Probably_Decide_The_War

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  17. Oh dear….now the Public Protector is receiving complaints !!

    http://www.legalbrief.co.za/article.php?story=20101214085720742

    Complaints stack up against loose-tongued Cele
    Published in: Legalbrief Today
    Date: Tue 14 December 2010
    Category: General
    Issue No: 2709

    The Institute for Accountability in Southern Africa has lodged a fourth complaint against National Police Commissioner Bheki Cele for referring to murder accused Shrien Dewani as a monkey.

    In an e-mail to Public Protector Thuli Madonsela’s office yesterday, institute director Paul Hoffman SC said it had become necessary to raise a fresh complaint against Cele. A report in The Mercury notes this followed Cele’s comments that ‘a monkey came all the way from London to have his wife murdered here’. Hoffman said there was concern Cele’s comments could affect Dewani’s extradition to South Africa. ‘If the commissioner is allowed to continue to prejudge the issues in the extradition application and any possible trial and to misdescribe the accused in derogatory and racist language, there is a real prospect of a fair trial becoming unattainable.’ Hoffman urged the Public Protector to investigate Cele’s conduct, report on the findings and take appropriate action. ‘At the very least, if the reports are accurate, the commissioner should be required to retract and apologise publicly.’ The institute’s first two complaints were about Cele’s alleged role in securing leases in Pretoria and Durban for new police accommodation. The third related to Cele’s referring to himself as ‘general’ when the Constitution required he be known as ‘commissioner’, Hoffman said.
    Full report in The Mercury (subscription needed)

    The Justice Department is expected to receive extradition documents this week for Shrien Dewani, according to a report on the IoL site. The NPA would forward the legal documents to the Director-General of the department for his consideration, spokesperson Tlali Tlali said. The DG had to be ‘satisfied’ that the documents fulfilled the extradition requirements of the European Union Convention.
    Full report on the IoL site

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  18. Quote LEE ‘ Reports here said that Anni’s RINGS were found underneath her/seat.. so THAT actually was 1 of the reasons that rules out ROBBERY as a MOTIVE…..’

    Suppose and I do that you believe Dewani set this all up and is guilty – then who do you really think put Anni’s ring underneath the seat ??? The ring I think would surely at some point be handed back to Dewani as her husband. Oh how clever Dewani must have thought his plans but how obvious this whole fake high-jack robbery is!!!!!!!!!

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    • IF (just for a moment) one believes robbery was the motive – then surely BOTH husband & wife as well as the driver would have been stripped down to their undies (rings, watches,wallets,phones,necklaces) ; and abandoned or shot.

      And the VW Sharan would have been stolen for re-sale or breakup into parts – here in the UK expensive cars are often stolen to order & stripped into components for re-sale within 2 hours.

      NONE of the above has happened – so I defy anyone to conclude that robbery was the motive.

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      • @ Beb, Andy, Andrew

        There’s a saying “When in Rome, do as the Romans do”. Reggie’s right, as South Africans we know what our criminals are capable of and are well aware of our alarmingly high crime stats.

        This was atypical of a SA hijack and Dewani slipped up over and over again. He changed his account of the events on numerous occasions. He did not return to SA for the identity parade – he was the main surviving witness! He did not return to SA as he agreed to. SAPS let Dewani leave SA in good faith and on the understanding that he would return to SA to assist SAPS while this matter was under investigation or to be quizzed further. This has not happened.

        I’ve thought long and hard about this, read the vast majority of articles on the web. Based on that there is another reason why Anni may have been killed and so far it has not been mentioned. Why on earth did Shrien hand Tongo a plastic bag? Why did Tongo take this bag and go into the bathroom to hide it? R1500 in SA is not much and it can quite easily fit into your hand – a smallish roll – think Cuban cigar thick…. Could it be that Shrien was either a drug user or a drug smuggler? Could he have lied to conceal the fact this was a drug deal gone wrong? That would have screwed his reputation.

        As Reggie said in an earlier post, they would not have let the taxi driver & Shrien go free unless they had gorged their eyes out first. It’s a fact. They would have raped Anni and then killed all three or stabbed / tortured them and dumped them then they would have stolen the car (well it was stolen anyway) so better to say they would have stripped it or tried to sell it – lots of people get suckered that way. There have been cases though where the hijackers took the passengers/driver for a bit of a hell ride then dumped them normally after a good beating. A simple hijack is to point the gun, passengers and driver get out and the hijackers make off with the car. And yes, it’s true – criminals in SA do not go after tourists. Sometimes (rarely) they get robbed but that’s common all over the world.

        One day after the murder millions of South Africans did not believe Shrien’s version of the events. So he changed them, still we didn’t believe it so he changed them again. We now have this for breakfast, lunch and dinner – tv, press reports. What we are also faced with are utterly disgraceful verbal attacks, mostly by people who know very little about this country. Fights online between Hindus and Indians, sometimes Muslims. Mud-slinging back and forth and South Africans are getting increasingly annoyed about this – these investigations are costing the SA taxpayers tens of millions – people like me for instance who can ill afford it. This really has put a damper on the festive season.

        Andrew, anyone for that matter,when in SA, please don’t lie about your partner or yourself being in the travel agency business to score a massive discount. Don’t try bypassing the foreign exchange laws, it’s low. Don’t add to our problems because we have enough on our plates. Remember that our Intelligence Agency is really jacked up – sooner or later the truth will come out, in one way or another.

        Every f*ing day I think about Anni’s last 30-60 minutes. How lonely and petrified she must have been. I wonder whether she was killed instantly or whether she bled to death, her last words etc…

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  19. WHY WE CHANGE THE CRIME TO FIT THE STORY
    An article to bring us back to earth….
    As interesting as Dewani story is, crime is usually so banal in real life.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/columnists/thomas-sutcliffe/tom-sutcliffe-why-we-change-the-crime-to-fit-the-story-2159630.html

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  20. @Beb.. Off Course .. The ring must dfinitely have been returned to him as her husband I would aasume.. At some point , If i can recall clearly, a report stated that he said during the hijacking “Anni” told him (once again SHE SAID) that she was hiding the rings from them AND this I think roused peoples suspicions further to say WHY would she do that INSTEAD of offering it to them for her release..
    Furthermore, when speaking to the media his version was… ” They held a gun to my ear.. They were cold.. I cannot go into what happened DURING the actual hijacking AS I WILL START TO CRY”… For GOD’S SAKE … Even if you were to shed tears during that interview people would have UNDERSTOOD .. @ THE same time appreciating the TRUTH.. Reason he probably did not want to say what happened BECAUSE NOTHING probably “REALLY” happend (to him i.e.) seeing that all this was STAGED.. like… duhhh??..lol….
    I, for one, had my spouse got murdered in that way. would not give a damn ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE THINK.. even if i fell on my KNEES in grief…for crying out loud.. my image @ that time would be the last thing on my mind.. clearly EMOTIONS will take over ..

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  21. @ Andy Stone.. WHO KNOWS… Maybe the SAPS ALREADY KNOW the motive & CANNOT reveal to the public just yet UNTIL Shrien stands trial..
    Look @ what the MEDIA has done with all the reporting from “sources”.. Imagine if the MOTIVE was leaked.. ?? THEN that’s gonna buy Max Clifford AMPLE TIME before a trial gets underway to come up with some fairytale diversion from the TRUTH!!!..

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  22. I think there is a false dichotomy being made about motive here –

    Even if Shrien ordered a hit, robbery was still part of the motive, including rape.

    Each player in the scenario of a hit would have had their own motives.

    If these were hired gunmen by the husband, they were by no means professionals but common thugs.
    That is why they ended up killing her in the car, coz they thought they should rape her while they were at it.

    If this was Tongos Masterplan – the guys he hired ended up doing what they wanted dropping the husband off, then taking the wife alone to do whatever they wanted with her. Then he wound up with a dead body in his car.

    So there are multiple players and multiple motives.

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  23. Gayatri & Andrew are correct – it is incomprehensible that the comments on this thread are so ani-Shiren.

    Poor Anni didn’t know she was going on honeymoon to SA – why would she? Like a good Hindu boy he told his mother.

    A good Hindu boy will drive to the other side of town (spending ££’s in fuel, parking, time etc..) to save 10 pence on a kilo of aubergines. So it is perfectly normal to create a fake website in order to save money on hotel accommodation or go to a dodgy suburb in a foreign country to get a good exchange rate. A wife abandoned by the pool on HER honeymoon is inconsequential fact of this thrift.

    A good Hindu boy, smitten and full of romance, would blissfully take a walk on a non-descript beach on a windy and dull evening.

    A good Hindu boy would never make the decision to go to a township in a country with appalling levels of crime after dark. He would allow his taxi driver or partner to make that call.

    A good Hindu boy subjected to a carjacking would surely be far to traumatised to recall if he was thrown out of a window of a moving car or dragged out whilst it is stationery.

    A good Indian boy brought up on a diet of Amitabh Bachan Bollywood movies will know that he will escape from the clutches of hardened criminals without a scratch.

    CCTV images showing a good Hindu boy running from the lift to his room is completely normal, since he is ’taking his exercise’ indoors as he has just discovered SA is a dangerous country. Furthermore being a good Hindu boy will subsequently decide that he will never return there.

    Can’t (won’t?) you guys see that this is all a stitch-up (all the SMS’s, phone calls, CCTV images, witness testimony, cell-phone traces etc.. are irrelevant) by the SA authorities to pin the blame on a good Hindu boy to save their country from the abyss?

    Please come back Gayatri and post some more comments – not only is it highly amusing but with you around who the hell needs Max Clifford?!

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    • @blunose
      Thank you for such a good laugh! You speak for many people on this blog.

      Gyathri’s response to your comment will probably be:

      “I’ve already addressed those issues in a previous entry.” Hehe 🙂

      And it was Gyathri who said ‘Shrien was probably going for a jog or something’, when I asked why he ran down the corridor to get changed!!! Ridiculous..

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  24. @blunose. You are a man after my own heart – pity you are married.

    Definitely eyes wide shut with some of BBTS’s supporters.

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  25. @ blunose
    1. Which victim hires a publicist?

    2.Which victim hires a criminal attorney?

    3.Which victim newlywed husband doesn’t return to identify his wife’s murderers?

    4.Which victim says the police are trying to set him up before they’ve said a word?

    5.Which victim, in a case like this, makes a round of the tabloids so soon after the event?

    6.Which victim is grieving too hard to deal with the identity parade but somehow managed to speak to the tabloids?

    7.Which victim gives conflicting versions and then gets annoyed when everyone becomes suspicious?

    8.Which victim slams the press for interference after having used the same vehicle (tabloids) to get his version out there?

    9.Which victim newlywed doesn’t visit and fully brief his in-laws in their time of grief?

    10.Which victim, almost immediately begins a campaign of defence when the whole world had nothing but sympathy for him?

    Like

    • The 10 Qs you just submitted clearly highlight just some of the reasons why so many people are questioning the his chain(s) of events and therefore his ‘innocence’.

      Like

  26. Some of our more elite hotels have conveyor belt type treadmills in the passages leading from the lifts to the rooms, enabling energetic guests to sprint to their rooms and obtain their daily exercise (this feature can be enabled or disabled prior to exiting the lift).

    Like

  27. @ blunose

    A good Hindu boy will drive to the other side of town (spending ££’s in fuel, parking, time etc..) to save 10 pence on a kilo of aubergines. So it is perfectly normal to create a fake website in order to save money on hotel accommodation or go to a dodgy suburb in a foreign country to get a good exchange rate. A wife abandoned by the pool on HER honeymoon is inconsequential fact of this thrift.

    There you go tarnishing the image of Hindus again. As I said minutes ago, if this is what you “usually” do, stay away from South Africa – we do not need you and we don’t want you crossing our borders – stay away!

    Like

  28. & further more

    “The officer who reached him [Mr Dewani] said that it didn’t look like he was hurt,’ said the source. ‘He saw no injuries or anything. And there was no sand on his clothes.
    ‘It didn’t look like Mr Dewani had been in a struggle. He still looked smart, like he was coming out of a restaurant.”

    Like

  29. What is this story about the engagement at the Ritz in Paris and what of its relevance as a choice of venue given its 1997 history connected to Dodi and Diana? Did he think he was Dodi al Fayed or something!?!?!?!?!

    Like

  30. If I was on “honey-moon” & I was an exercise fanatic.. WELL THEN.. Urhmmm.. lets see.. I cld come up with an interesting way of “exercising” in my room @ 11pm on THAT fateful nite RATHER than visit GUGU.. I mean “honeymoon”..duh???…
    Sight-see during the DAY.. Where you could see places MUCH BETTER, I would think, take pics etc.. RATHER THAN IN THE WEE WEE HOURS OF THE NITE…lol..
    Peace Out ALL..Am retiring for the DAY.. Until my Next POST… Watch the space… 🙂

    Like

  31. Yikes! I’m really sorry to have caused a minor rumpus here..

    Yep, my post was sarcastic and tongue in cheek and is really a follow-up to my previous post (a few days ago) on a different thread. Sorry for the confusion.

    No religious bigotry was intended – I am Hindu myself. I merely wanted to highlight Gayatri’s insistence that Shrien is innocent purely because he is ‘Hindu’ & ‘from a wealthy reputable family’. Am I wrong for being annoyed by the suggestion that Shrien is innocent because of his religious beliefs, wealth and reputation?

    Like

    • Hey blunose, all is cool – that was just a little ripple caused 😆 Actually, you had me in stitches for quite some time there, particularly when I got to the part of ” a good Indian boy … “!

      No, I don’t think you’re wrong in being annoyed about those insinuations at all – hell’s teeth, if all murderers were squinty eyed, pathetically poor hunchbacks … the police would have an easy job!

      Actually, I’m also pretty peeved that the suggestion was also made that ALL South Africans are barking up the wrong tree, simply because we want a foreigner to be found to be the guilty party! Geez, I know we live in Africa and all that, but we’re actually quite civilized (well some of us anyway)!

      Like

  32. A Plea!

    Gayatri I know you are reading this and it looks like you’ve carried-out you threat ‘not to post in this forum again’. That is a pity – whilst I clearly disagree with you on most points I sincerely believe that this thread is so captivating because of the views you’ve put forward.

    Yeah, sometimes things get a bit personal but that is the purpose of a forum and what is refreshing is that all the differing opinions expressed are retorted-to with so much enthusiasm. Can you imagine how boring it would be if we all agreed with each other – we would end-up just reinforcing each others’ viewpoints?

    The fact is that none of us know the ‘truth’ and even if we did we are not judge & jury for it to make a difference.

    Don’t let this thread die – please come back……

    Like

  33. @Gayathri

    I’m starting to notice that your favourite thing to say when you don’t have an answer to a query, is:

    I discussed this in an earlier blog…hehe 🙂

    Like

  34. This forum thread reminds me of the movie ’12 Angry Men’

    I love it!

    Like

  35. When I heard the allegations of Dr P Raghavjee & Dewani, the first thing in my mind was…..
    something to do with business, Dr Raghavjee had few mates in same field as Dewani’s family busns – NURSING HOMES.

    I dont know where this thing is going, just a thought?l

    Like

  36. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3277194/Shrien-Dewani-cops-quiz-rent-boy-on-claims.html

    Exclusive
    ‘I met Dewani for sex’, rent boy tells cops

    By NICK PARKER, Chief Foreign Correspondent

    Published: Today
    COPS have questioned a rent boy who claims honeymoon murder husband Shrien Dewani paid him for kinky sex.

    The 39-year-old escort told Scotland Yard he slept with the British care home tycoon three times.

    Dewani, 30, is suspected of arranging the killing of his wife Anni, 28, in South Africa. He refutes all the allegations.

    Cops suspect Dewani had Anni killed by hired hitmen while they were on honeymoon there.

    As part of the investigation, they want to ask him whether he is secretly homosexual.

    Smiles … the Dewanis’ wedding
    Smiles … the Dewanis’ wedding
    ENTERPRISE NEWS AND PICTURES

    The 39-year-old German escort is understood to have contacted UK police after recognising millionaire Dewani’s picture on TV news bulletins.

    He told Scotland Yard detectives he slept with the British care home tycoon three times.

    The man, from Munich, claims to have been in regular contact with 30-year-old Dewani for months and to have been paid by him for kinky sex sessions in the Midlands and West London.

    A lawyer for Mr Dewani said last night when contacted by The Sun over the rent boy’s allegations: “These allegations are completely false and ridiculous.”

    Advertisement
    Quantcast

    Dewani, who is on bail while fighting extradition to South Africa, has also strenuously denied any involvement in his wife’s murder last month. He angrily insists he is not gay and that he was blissfully happy with his bride of just two weeks.

    British detectives last night prepared to pass on the gay sex worker’s details to South African cops.

    The 6ft 2in, 16� stone rent boy told the Metropolitan Police’s special crime directorate that Dewani paid him a total of �1,100 in cash for his services between September last year and this April.

    Dewani’s lawyers denied he had ever met the rent boy and claimed he has witnesses to corroborate his story.

    His spokesman, publicist Max Clifford, said of the escort’s claims: “It is categorically denied. Shrien Dewani has never had a sexual relationship with a man in his life.”

    Suspect … Dewani reports to a Bristol police station this week
    Suspect … Dewani reports to a Bristol police station this week
    SWNS

    South African police raised concerns a week ago that all was not well in the Dewanis’ marriage – and that Shrien’s sexuality was a factor. But Dewani denied being gay in an interview with The Sun.

    He was arrested a week ago on suspicion of conspiracy to murder. He and Anni, from Westbury-on-Trym, Bristol, went to Cape Town after their wedding in Mumbai.

    Two men ambushed their taxi on November 13, dumped Shrien and their driver Zola Tongo and sped off.

    Anni was found in the abandoned car next day, shot dead through the neck.

    Tongo has accused Dewani of asking him to set up a hit disguised as a car-jacking for �1,400.

    South African cops say CCTV footage shows Dewani paying Tongo, 31, two days after the killing. Mr Clifford said Dewani was paying his fare.

    The Met said last night: “We do not discuss ongoing investigations.”

    Like

  37. http://theindicator.co.za/2010/12/go-back-shrien/

    ‘Go back Shrien’

    December 14 2010 at 07:44am
    By Caryn Dolley

    iol news pic Vinod Hindocha dec 14

    INLSA

    Go to South Africa and do it. Let the world know what happened. Photo: Noor Slamdien.

    Related Stories

    * Extradition papers for Dewani due this week
    * Dewani case ‘has ruined my life’
    * ECape murder might have been a hit – PI
    * Another suspect says Dewani did set up murder
    * Anni’s date with death
    * ‘Cele’s monkey slur racist’
    * Bizarre twists in Anni killing
    * Cops probe Shrien, murder link

    Murdered honeymoon tourist Anni Dewani’s father has one message for Shrien Dewani: “Go to South Africa and do it. Let the world know what happened.”

    “If he’s not guilty, why can’t he just go back?” said Vinod Hindocha yesterday in a phone interview with the Cape Times from his home in Mariestad, Sweden.

    Last week Shrien Dewani, accused of orchestrating his wife Anni’s murder, was arrested in the UK and granted bail of R2.7 million. The National Prosecuting Authority was compiling documents requesting he be extradited but it emerged in court proceedings in the UK last week that he planned to fight extradition.

    “I don’t know why he’s doing that. If he says proudly that he did not do it, then just go back (to Cape Town). Clear the doubts. What’s the big deal?

    “Give us justice. That’s what I ask for. Justice for my daughter who was so lively and so innocent,” Hindocha said.

    He had not spoken to his son-in-law or his relatives in weeks and would not comment on whether he planned to contact them. Hindocha did not plan to go to the UK to be present at court proceedings involving Shrien Dewani.

    Last week Hindocha was in Cape Town for the trial of shuttle driver Zola Robert Tongo, who in court documents said Shrien Dewani had asked him to help orchestrate his wife’s murder and had offered R15 000 for the killing.

    Yesterday Hindocha said he planned to return with relatives next year.

    About eight months ago, before knowing his daughter would visit the city, he had booked tickets to Cape Town for a holiday.

    “When Anni was murdered I was about to cancel the tickets to South Africa. But when I came to SA last week it was like heaven on earth. Thank God we did not cancel those tickets. We will come to Cape Town next year then go on to the Maldives,” Hindocha said.

    During his visit to the city last week, Hindocha had been surprised at how sympathetic and kind people had been towards him.

    “I was at a restaurant and someone came up and gave me a condolence card. It made me cry. There are lovely people in Cape Town. This is from my heart. I’m not saying it because I feel forced to..”

    He and his relatives plan to arrive in Cape Town on February 21, four days before Mziwamadoda Qwabe and Xolile Mngeni, now in prison, are set to appear in court for their alleged involvement in Anni’s murder.

    Yesterday Angela Ciuchini, spokeswoman for the Chitwa Chitwa Private Game Lodge at the Sabi Sand Game Reserve in Mpumalanga, said Shrien and Anni Dewani stayed there from November 9 to 12, the day before Anni’s murder.

    Ciuchini said Shrien Dewani had presented himself as a travel agent wanting to do a site inspection of the lodge.

    “He said he had to organise four or five trips in 2011 for high-profile directors. Special rates were negotiated and he did pay a reduced price (for their stay),” she said.

    Hindocha said he had recently heard about Shrien Dewani’s negotiations with the lodge. “I didn’t know anything about that before. I’m shocked.”

    Revelations that police were probing whether Shrien Dewani may also be linked to the murder three years ago of King William’s Town doctor Pox Raghavjee had surprised Hindocha. “I read that in the paper. We are following the case from this side.”

    Shrien Dewani’s British public relations specialist Max Clifford has denied his client was involved in any killing and said that if Shrien had pretended to be a travel agent to get a discounted stay at a game lodge, it did not make him a murderer.

    Hindocha said he and his family were struggling to move forward. “It’s terrible. Things are not getting better. I can’t go to work. I can’t do anything.”

    Go to South Africa and do it. Let the world know what happened. Photo: Noor Slamdien.

    He described photographs of Anni in his home. “We have photos everywhere. I see one of Anni smiling broadly. There’s another one of her smiling, looking out the picture.

    He described photographs of Anni in his home. “We have photos everywhere. I see one of Anni smiling broadly. There’s another one of her smiling, looking out the picture.

    “We have family members here, but we’re not ourselves. We just walk round and round. Our house is dead. We can’t get peace of mind. We feel Anni’s with us, but we feel bad.”

    Hindocha may never get over his daughter’s murder.

    “This is a deep hole in my heart that will never ever be filled. That’s a fact of life. We can never bring Anni back.”

    caryn.dolley@inl.co.za – Cape Times

    Like

  38. http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/7595999-shrien-dewani-insults-intrigue-and-unanswered-questions

    A comment: Here’s an example of the insults I referred to. In SA when someone is referred to as a “monkey” it simply implies stupidity, nothing else. When I discuss Shrien Dewani, I refer to him as an idiot or a moron.

    Reply
    Posted By ahol888 Adrian Holman | 2 days ago
    The officer made that dumb statement because South Africans did not teach Black people properly during the apartheid era. Now, all of a sudden, they have jobs in which they were never prepared properly for. So of course, muppets like this officer and Malema will continue to make dumb statements. It’s also sad that this officer was probably called the same thing for decades, yet does not have enough empathy to remember what he went through and calls someone from another race the same thing he was probably called as well. Racism sucks royally, no matter which race is being racist.

    Like

  39. Oh SORRY Alexis already posted that Kinky link.

    Sorry ALL

    Like

  40. I set up the Google Alerts in a new Gmail Account as promised. The username is bjvalerts@gmail.com and the password is trickypassword

    Like

  41. Yesterday I stated that R1500 was allegedly picked up by Tongo. That is incorrect, it was R1000. Even worse though, about because R1000 rolled up would be about the size of a normal cigarette. There’s been quite a few remarks about the ring being hidden under the seat. I don’t recall reading about that. I think that Tongo said he sent a sms to Shrien Dewani asking where the money was (R15000). Shrien replied via sms that it was under the front seat of the taxi. The police stated that they found some of Anni’s possessions at the homes of the suspect/s.

    Like

    • Sorry about the “about because” in my previous post. It was supposed to be “because”. Heck it’s 7:14am in SA. I need some coffee….

      Like

  42. Hmmmmmmmm…. Morning All.. @ ALEXIS.. 1 Sugar please… Strong coffee 4 a cold morning…lol
    WOW!… @ Solly/Alexis… That is an interesting link you guys posted here..
    I wonder NOW what Shrien fans are gona come up with to justify that allegation…Can’t wait to hear……

    Like

  43. 😉 just becoz he’s gay dont make him no killa!

    Like

  44. 😉 UNLESS.. off Course @ Solly SA must have “Bribed” someone OR made a deal with that Escort Guy to come fwd with that story.. Hehee!!… I wonder what they must have offered the guy for that story??… FREE JAIL TERM WHICH MEANS FREE “kinky sex” ANYTIME ….Heheee!!

    Like

    • I’ve been waiting hours to hear the first “He was paid to say that!”. Sounds like Shrien alright, the price paid was rather low…..

      Like

  45. I think the South African police went to Munich and paid the guy to join the campaign to save South Africa’s tourism industry.
    Anything to save our tourism industry…

    :$

    Like

  46. LOL!!…….
    This is a clear cut case.. & 1 does not need a Crystal Ball to see the link here.
    It’s a PITY that this may take a lot of TIME to move forward what with the extradition process etc..

    Like

  47. 😆 ALEXIS!….. After scouting around he must have realised that was a BARGAIN.

    Like

    • @Lee
      He probably raided the piggy bank before he left home and handed a plastic bag full of coins to Tongo. Clearly the man has no shame.

      Damn, he has caused major sh*te in this country!

      Like

      • Ok, maybe I am in holiday mode and my brain is not functioning but i don’t understand the logic. He splashes out on a private jet and a suite at the Ritz for an engagement and then goes and creates a fraudulent travel agency to get a discount for his honeymoon, pays hired killers R15000 and then stiffs the cabbie out of R4000. What happened inbetween the engagement and the honeymoon that made him cheap?

        Like

  48. Shrien , look at the sh*t we are having to deal with 10 days before XMAS !!!! Now blacks are monkeys” according to Caroline

    http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page71654?oid=215319&sn=Detail&pid=71616

    @Caroline
    If I call a black man a monkey ….am I being raciest? See I know I am raciest…cos they are M******

    by storm trooper on December 15 2010, 08:56
    Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

    Caoline misses the point…
    @caroline – “Race doesn’t come into it.” Could you please pass this message onto the ANC. I believe the last two comments are jusified. A white person, Asian or Coulured may not use any derogatory term without being called a racist. But, Mhlungu, Monkey, . .more Lilly White, Imperialist, Settler, Bhunu, – these are all acceptable if coming from a Black African, aimed at any other race group?
    I think its is you who missed the point, but you are entitled to an opinion anyway.
    Ms. Kohler Barnard – you are an asset to the country IMHO. . .less

    by TW on December 15 2010, 09:22
    Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

    @Themba
    I dont know how Albert Einstein would explain physics to a 5 yr old but im going to try, but im not holding my breath as blacks are retarded and ill also prove that…Themba calling Dewani a monkey by media sways judgment, sways public opinion …in other . .more words it becomes trial by media…example Zuma and his corruption case, remember that one.
    The South african constitution states that all citizens and foreign visitors who come to South Africa are subject to the South African constitution meaning that Dewani should not be subject to deformation and is innocent until proven guilty.
    Now prove how retarded black people are…You have a police commissioner who makes an unprofessional statement that Dewani is a monkey….the reaction from blacks in this country now has been Monkey Monkey Monkey. Dewani can now say look the south africans are being raciest and have already shown that I can not have a fair trial as they have already made up thier mines. This makes it harder for our justice system to get dewani down here to answer to these charges. I mean really you blacks are P*******…You have a retarded commissioner who let Dewani go back to England as he wasnt a prime suspect, then to make up for his stupidity he makes another stupid mistake of the statement. Hell I would also be scared to come back to south africa to a mobbing . .less

    by Storm trooper on December 15 2010, 09:43
    Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

    Oh my gosh, it’s common for South Africans to call “idiots” “M******” ! Sometimes we proud to say that. Cele merely implied that Dewani is an idiot. Go to Google and see how South Africans are being insulted, there are millions of them so much so that . .more even usually cool, calm and collected South Africans have now reached boiling point. This happened long before Cele made the statement. . .less

    by Barbara on December 15 2010, 10:33
    Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

    Coding error! What a m.o.n.k.e.y
    Oh, by the way my message came out garbled….the IT Dept must have m.o.n.k.e.y.s. working for them!

    by Barbara on December 15 2010, 10:35
    Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

    m.o.n.k.e.y. Now the word has turned into a dirty word..M***** !
    What I actually said was “Oh, my gosh, it’s common place for South Africans to call “idiots” m.o.n.k.e.y.s. Sometimes we even say “m.o.n.k.e.y. see, m.o.n.k.e.y. do” when we refer to idiots. I am not a racist and I am proud to say that. Cele merely . .more

    Like

  49. @Alexis. Shame, imagine how a real monkey must feel being compared to the Einstein’s in your post. An insult to a monkey!

    Like

  50. @ Sheeda. We adore our m.o.n.k.e.y.s. near Cape Point, aren’t they just too cute sometimes? And really clever as well. Storm Trooper seems hell bent on starting a civil war ! I was afraid of this.

    Like

  51. @Sheeda, @Lee, re this link posted just minutes ago…I find many of the comments really offensive and I’m visibly upset. I’ll probably just smoke, and do the coffee & music thing for the rest of the day. I happen to work in the Dept of Physics at a university. Many of our senior lecturers are professors and they are black. Most of our Masters and PHD students are black…Most of us read online news….How will they feel when they read the remarks of Caroline & Storm Trooper? We are sick to death of the insults being directed at us since Anni died…..but now this!

    Like

  52. Feel your pain @ Alexis….lol.. You know ev1 finds its convenient now to pick on the “monkey” issue & make a Circus of it and THO Cele may have been wrong in his choice of words @ the time, you know , we are all humans & fine he may have not THOUGHT before he spoke (which we all do).. YET they quick to jump in DEFENCE of Shrien susing the same reasoning that he was under stress etc when speaking to media..
    Some of us TOO can say that “MAYBE” Cele is under a lot of pressure to solve this case & YES who wouldn’t be angry @ the fact that they let a suspect slip thru their fingers out of the country .. and all in good faith COS they gave him the benefit of doubt as the grieving widower..
    I, personally have PLENTY (if not more) black friends than Asians.. & really I DO NOT HAVE a RACE issue…lol

    Like

  53. I need to rectify something, Caroline is ok, Storm Trooper is not. The good news is I needed to find a way to “unlike” someone / a group in Facebook and somehow I missed it but today I really needed to unlike “Helen Zille – Leader of the DA” in a hurry and hip hip hooray I did it! Thousands of South Africans begged that Shrien should not be allowed to leave [see comments on iol.co.za, timeslive.co.za, news24.com etc.] so yes it came as a shock that just a couple of hours after Anni’s body was handed over to her family, they boarded a British Airways plane and left. All things considered, no arrests had been made up until then so there was no-one to spill the beans.

    Like

  54. In defence of Cele (tho I am not hugely/normally a fan) I believe that he does not want to let “his people” down on this 1… & when I say “People” I don’t necessary mean a particular race, more the citizens of SA.. so yaa.. A high profile case, much pressure to find the killer/s.. SO on THIS 1 I forgive him.

    Like

    • I must admit I’ve never liked him. For starters that cowboy hat didn’t go down well with me. I detest the “Shoot now, ask questions later” attitude/motto. He only recently married and has spent almost a month down here I assume he is still here – based in PTA and now that they are investigating the other hit they can’t be getting much sleep. I read a couple of days ago that he has been told to “shut up”. Really all he meant was that Shrien is an idiot.

      Like

  55. @ Sheeda.. Probably the MORE he saved here in SA. the more he could invest in Munich… 😉
    It’s JUST PLAIN & SIMPLE I would say.. HE UNDERESTIMATED SA , the people & their intelligence, & OFF course took advantage/exploited the less advantaged guys from the townships, who were so desperate for the money, never considered the cheap tag they accepted to put an end to a beautiful life…

    Like

  56. Wow, I certainly didn’t see this ‘gay kinky-sex’ story coming…

    Motive – Could it be that Shrien just didn’t want to get married (whatever his reasons)? I penned the following a few days ago but wasn’t sure whether or not to post it but, what the hell, here goes:

    Shrien would have known since he was a little boy that he WOULD one day get married – we all do (‘we’ as in Hindu males) it is our custom. You don’t give it a second thought as you’re growing-up – your parents and family ensure that your upbringing is full of love and affection as well as sheltered and privileged. You want for nothing materially from childhood through teens and into adulthood. Upon graduating it is not unknown to be given a nice car or the funds to buy your first property (sometimes both). Not bad, eh? And then it starts… At first it’s just it’s just comments like ‘so when are you getting married’ or that there is a nice girl (always tall, slim & of pale complexion) for you to meet – she is educated and, of course, from a ‘good’ family. Initially, it is easy to brush-off the the suggestions and innuendos especially if you don’t want your life to be defined by a marriage & 2.4 children. But slowly the pressure begins to build from family, friends, community, temple etc… and it starts eating away at your conscience. And still you resist but the pressure is now relentless and you begin to question your sanity. Then a sibling or peer gets married and it dawns on you that this is the beginning of the end of your resistance. Rumours and gossip begin to circulate about you and your family by ‘outsiders’ (you’re fully aware of who they are). Your parents reaction to these malicious rumours is to resort to emotional blackmail – you are reminded of all the sacrifices they went through and you suddenly realise that your wonderful upbringing was conditional on you fulfilling your side of the bargain – getting married and having sons (having a son is a blessing, a daughter is a curse but that’s another story). You are a broken man – all your aspirations shattered and you finally succumb to save your families ‘face’ and their reputation in the eyes of the community. So, within 18 months or so you are ‘happily’ married – your new wife a living manifestation of the life you didn’t want. Divorce? Well, that’s considered more disgraceful than not getting married in the first place and is an absolute non-starter if you have younger siblings or cousins after all who would want to get married to someone from a ‘disgraced’ family? So what do you do? What would YOU do?

    This is my story, it’s also the story of a couple of my contemporaries and maybe, just maybe, it’s Shrien’s story aswell

    Like

    • Blunose….if you didn’t see the Gay sex story coming then all I can say is that you must have been on another planet for the last 2 weeks.

      As for the dissertation you wrote – I seriously doubt that your views represent the views of the wider Hindu community – may be in a previous lifetime- but not in this.

      From personal experience of Hindu friends I can say that the pressure (usually on one self) only builds up when you know you are Gay but you cannot ot will not admit it to your family. Those people usually go through a wedding to please their family. And may be this is what happened in the Dewani case ?

      Like

    • @Blunose…

      Check the previous threads, there’s a guy by the name of Bernard Blum. He said the following about 7-10 days ago “He could not sleep with his wife because he is gay. He cancelled a previous wedding He had to marry due to family pressure so he married Anni who obviously found out soon enough. He had to kill her in order to keep his secret – PROVE ME WRONG”. I assume that once a Hindu male marries and he becomes a widower, there is no further pressure from the family.

      Like

  57. @ Blunose .. Coming from an Indian background I can identify with your story BUT times have changed & so have people’s lifestyles.. I find in this day & age a lot of Indian kids are getting married at a much LATER stage of their lives, first pursuing their education, gaining their own flats, cars.. Independence..Tho a lot of parents find it difficult at first to accept this from their kids MOST parents adapt & sometimes conversations @ functions even NOW change to bragging about “HOW successful my child is & how Independent he/she may be”…
    So, as much as your story holds fort THAT should not be any reason for Shrien OR any other DECENT human being on this Earth , to RUIN another CHILD’S life.. (Yes.. she too had an upbringing & HER parents invested much (IF NOT MORE) in HER than maybe say Shrien’s parents did in HIM…
    I call that being a COWARD!!…. Just MY OPINION.

    Like

    • @bluenose. I understand the pressures from family – hey, I come from a staunch Muslim Indian family – imagine those pressures – and get the whole “when are you getting married thing” as I have been through that very torture myself and brought further shame by getting divorced not long after.

      Whilst i understand all that, I do not think that it can be used as justification for murdering an innocent person because you couldn’t disappoint your family and parents. Wouldn’t it be more disappointing and disgraceful when you are convicted on murder? Look, I had many a thought of how to get rid of my Ex but realised he was not worth the possible jail term being someone’s beeatch and remembering not to drop the soap.

      If that is his reasoning for marrying her and then killing her – then that ball-less Bugs Bunny needs to be hung up by his you-know-what in the middle of our Pollsmoor jail cell and get his just desserts.

      Like

  58. Hmmm…. I thouht I left a comment here some time agao but I can’t see it. It has really dragged on a bit hasn’t it. Controversial post by the look of it.

    Like

  59. @Alexis

    There are many kinds of internet losers… extreme right wingers are just one subspecies!

    Like

  60. @ Tony.. yeh just dragging on.. as long as the “suspect” refuses to come back to SA it will continue to do so..

    Like

  61. Being South African I know several gay indian men personally.
    Its not the hindu faith as such; it is just conservative upper class mindset of a family that holds the idea of family very close in the traditional sens (look at the pose they did together after shrien’s bail).
    Then add on top of that their standing in Bristol and in the greater Indian business class diaspora
    Then overlay all of that with a religious mindset.

    This happens with many respected wealthy white Christian, Black, Muslim, Afrikaans etc families.

    Dewani could have been an upper middle class black south african man with a christian background except what makes him unique is that maybe he is a bit of a narcissist which can lead you to do many anti-social things such as allegedly kill your new wife.

    i said allegedly.

    Like

  62. @ DUNCANR

    There’s no threat that you can sued for defamation for this webpage given how significant it has become in discussions around this perplexing murder case?

    Like

  63. @ Solly.. Defamation of character??…….. What character??…lol
    If Duncan has to be sued then HE gota wait in a longgggggggggggggggggggggggg Q to be sued considering the countless webpages set up … AND I think right NOW that should be the LAST thing on Shrien’s or his legal team’s mind COS what is MOST important is to SHOW THE WORLD A REASON OF WHY HE CLAIMS TO BE INNOCENT!!

    Like

  64. @LEE

    LOL AT “Loooongggggg QUEUE!”

    Like

  65. Only South Africans will appreciate the humour in this twitter message from someone:

    TSOTSI 2 – From Bristol to Gugulethu, with Love. Starring Shrien Dewani.

    Like

  66. 😆 What can I say @ Solly.. I am a DECENT HINDU GIRL .. Don’t we speak that way?…lol 😆

    And YES.. :lol That Tsotsi 2>>>>>>>>is a RIPPER!

    Like

  67. P/S :- @ Sheeda… If he is balls-less.. THEN he cannot be hung up “by his you know what”… HEHE!!.. Just saying… lol

    Like

  68. @Alexis – yeah pretty much, once a hindu male is widowed there will little or no pressure to remarry. Although there will be a ‘Masi’ (Aunt) trying to set him up with a new bride a few days after funeral of his first wife! & no I’m not joking

    Like

    • @blunose…Ok, but then that blows the gay theory as to why this happened….. does anyone know whether this guy was into the drug scene? Why did the British police say he’d been under surveillance for a while?

      Like

  69. @Lee, @Sheeda

    Wholehearted agree – whatever he was going through there is no way Anni’s death can be justified. But what drove him to be so callous and caluculating? Of course we’ll never know but I’m playing devils advocate by suggesting that he felt pressured into getting married and along with a whole load of other factors he’s decided to wipe Anni ‘off the scene’.

    Like

  70. @Solly

    Being upper-middle class certainly doesn’t help as there is more of a reputation to uphold! They do say ‘that the higher you climb, the further you fall’. In Shiren’s case he initially thought he fell into a mound of sand, but its obvious now that it was shit and he is still neck-high in it now!

    Like

  71. Blunose….if you didn’t see the Gay sex story coming then all I can say is that you must have been on another planet for the last 2 weeks.

    As for the dissertation you wrote – I seriously doubt that your views represent the views of the wider Hindu community – may be in a previous lifetime- but not in this.

    From personal experience of Hindu friends I can say that the pressure (usually on one self) only builds up when you know you are Gay but you cannot ot will not admit it to your family. Those people usually go through a wedding to please their family. And may be this is what happened in the Dewani case ?

    Like

    • Nah, I really didn’t expect him to be gay – I’m not sure why? Wasn’t sure about his motive so I was thinking along the lines of family pressure, dodgy business deals, money etc.. But yeah, I guess being gay and unable to ‘come out’ must create a pressure of enourmous magnitude that he probably went along with he wedding as you’ve suggested…..

      Like

  72. Solly

    The WordPress Servers are based in Texas (?) which means any action for defamation of character would come under USA libel laws rather than that of UK

    The main difference being that the burden of proof differs between UK and US libel laws.

    For example, if I call you a murderer and you decide to sue me for defamation of character – under UK libel laws it is up to me to prove that what I have said is true, whereas under US libel laws it would be up to you to prove that what I had said was false. The WordPress servers being based in the USA also means that the constitutional right to freedom of expression applies

    I have no legal training. The foregoing is just my layman’s understanding of the libel laws as they apply in the UK and the USA. I do not think, however, there is any threat that this blog will be sued for libel.

    If anyone with some legal knowledge knows differently, of course, then please advise

    Like

  73. Shrien Dewani has not been named Time’s Personality of the Year 2010.

    See here for details: http://t.co/q26nxMS

    Like

  74. My email account getting clogged up with msgs on this forum, although its hard to follow….i love it!

    I think people from different places getting paid to come up with shit against Dewani, so the media stops concentrating on the main issue, and its investigations. now the investigations are focused on this little German Batty-boy-escort, lets say – Shrien is gay or bi, does that mean he wasnt capable to get his wife killed?

    i found a good website – re Dewani’s statements
    http://www.timeslive.co.za/sundaytimes/article810976.ece/Doubts-and-riddles

    Like

  75. No Ann-Marie the ‘gay’ story has to do with motive.
    Did he kill his wife because she either ‘found out’ or because he decided he wasn’t interested in her companionship anymore.
    Also it would prove that he intentionally deceived her by paying for sex outside during their courtship (like a preacher who is caught with prostitutes)
    The distraction story was the mum-of-two affair story
    this one hs to do with murder motive

    Like

  76. Thanks Solly, didnt think of it that way…
    but I dont THINK him being gay/bi has to do with the murder, he could have lived a double life, to keep the family ‘values’… even if he did admit being gay, this issue with the murder would classify as a motive of the murder, but not a fact? which means, they cannot charge him guilty for Annis murder.

    what puzzles me is;
    It wasnt an arranged marriage, as Anni’s sister is married to a Swedish bloke. I know the Hindocha family, and they are quite liberal like the rest of the Hindu/muslim community in Mariestad, Sweden.

    Like

    • There is usually some confusion when it comes to the issue of asian marriages whether it be ‘arranged’ or ‘forced’

      As its name suggests ‘forced marriage’ is when one or even both partners marry each other against their wishes – it occurs rarely (or it is reported rarely) particularly amongst the Pakistani muslim community here in the UK.

      ‘Arranged’ marriage is a wedding that both parties (generally!) consent to – the union may have been arranged when they were in their nappies (diapers) buy family elders – it was relatively common up until a generation ago but this practice has more or less died out.

      Marriages nowadays are a lot different and dare I say it, a bit more westernised. Compatible suitors are ‘introduced’ to each other by mutual family or friends, colleagues or they may even meet via matrimonial websites. They date each other and if all goes well and the families approve then wedding bells are on the horizon. Actually wedding bells may be on the horizon even if the families don’t approve!!

      Like

  77. @Ann Marie

    It’s not the being gay that is the motive. It may be that she found out and threatened to expose him to family.
    But that may not be enough of a motive or even a motive.
    It just strikes me as odd, for a modern liberal couple, that they were not seen showing affection ONCE during their honeymoon.
    They looked happy together, but not affectionate.
    You say Anni is modern; I think she would have wanted to hold her husband or at least be very physically close to him during their special honeymoon.
    People who say they looked in love might probably mean, they looked good together and looked ‘together’.
    But no one said they were cuddling like a newly married couple.

    But I’m resting the ‘she was going to expose him’ theory now.
    After all, she did go on honeymoon with him, which she may have refused had she found out he may not be attracted to her.
    So perhaps there is another motive.
    And we are left with one feasible motive – money.
    So we have to wait for more to emerge on the money.

    Like

  78. Yes, Anni & Shrien were introduced to each other by friends and family.I would love Max Clifford to tell us how he knows that Shrien has ”never” had sex with a male….since he has barely known shrien for 3 weeks out of his 30 years….so come on max tell us please…

    Like

  79. Solly …. my guess is Money or Anni found out a dewani – family – secret.

    not much has mentioned what happened before 7th Nov 2010, honeymoon date.

    How did the wedding go, was she happy? how come her mother in law broke the news to her about the Surprise honeymoon to SA? (Im asking this as I was very mad at my ex-monster-in-law & her sister for killing my surprise honeymoon by “accidentally” mentioning the destination)

    I look at anni’s pics and can see same sadness as Diana’s pics, she doesnt really look ‘over the moon’.

    Like

  80. Boy Duncan you really hit internet traffic paydirt with this one. I should’ve done a cartoon about it.

    Like

  81. Hi guys 🙂 I tried/trying to avoid posting any further here… anywho I dont think shriens gay..rent boy/affairs all that extra spin/ crapola is just being put out there.

    I dont see why/how shrien can sue papers or Duncan..when its just allegations.
    I agree with Alexis on so many points- I agree with alot of what Ann-marie has said too, who has raised some good points actually most guys here have raised some really good points (Solly, beb etc )

    I really hope South Africa has an astute legal/ prosecution team & hard evidence.

    Like

  82. Hi everyone, just thought you might like to know if you do not already that the Dewani supporters over on the The Anni Dewani (Hindocha) Case facebook page are using every trick in the book to try and get the page closed down. Several of us are receiving threatening messages – they really would like that page to vanish. Interestingly they never have any explanation of why he is innocent or why we who think he is guilty have got in wrong. No they just use sabotage lots of fake profiles, intimidation and well utter garbage! The Dewani camp and Clifford must be pooping their pants – thousands around the world know that Dewani is involved up to his neck in the murder of Anni.
    As someone on here said CLIFFORD YOU BACKED THE WRONG HORSE!!!

    Like

    • Beb – it was good of you to alert everyone re the facebook situation – acts which are totally mindless & self defeating.

      As far as your comment “CLIFFORD YOU BACKED THE WRONG HORSE!!! ” remember Max Clifford charges by the day – and whether Dewani is found guilty or not – Max will go home with a full pot of gold. Did you see the (deliberate) shot of his brand new £200,000 Rolls Royce in the background during his TV statements? He didn’t get this free in his cornflakes box.

      Like

  83. Ha Ha Andy I am loving the cornflakes joke.

    The quote ‘ Clifford you backed the wrong horse’ was me quoting someone on here. And in a sense I agree with whomever said it.

    You are correct of course he will almost certainly be making a fortune, but is it me or despite his flash car that you mentioned- he looks ill-at ease and uncomfortable with what he is saying??
    It is one thing to do damage limitation and spin for celebrities that have their pants down etc but it is quite another telling lies for the suspect of a murder.

    Like

  84. theres reports cops want to question shriens brother preyen with regards to the gay angle.. the cops should actually question preyen on who hired vehicle, who’s behind the’calls’ etc ‘london office’ their businesses & alot more. btw the cops should check all the phone records etc of anyone including family/business/everyone involved with shrien. Instead theyre following planted gays.

    Like

    • @Al
      ~~~~~
      theres reports cops want to question shriens brother preyen with regards to the gay angle.. the cops should actually question preyen on who hired vehicle, who’s behind the’calls’ etc ‘london office’ their businesses & alot more. btw the cops should check all the phone records etc of anyone including family/business/everyone involved with shrien. Instead theyre following planted gays.
      ~~~~~
      Trust me, the cops must be following each lead….I think it’s really important to speak to his ex fiance and her family….they were rattled when Shrien broke off the engagement.
      Re the hired car…This is how Shrien summed it up.
      1) When the police asked him for the registration number, he said his family in the UK had it! (frown?)
      2) He claimed that his secretary made all the reservations, including the cab driver! (frown?)

      I’m frowning so much, I’m getting wrinkles. Again, how could his secretary in the UK have made the booking with the cab driver? He worked for a VIP chauffeuring company. The booking was not made with them. Tongo used a stolen vehicle. How did Shrien’s secretary get hold of Tongo’s number? How could his family have had the stolen registration number? I kind of tried to ignore the other hit story but cannot anymore and here’s why. The other hotel guy who told the police that Shrien had boasted about a previous hit…that hotel guy used to live in East London, very close to where the previous hit took place. The doctor who was killed by a single shot to the head was married to the woman who is a very close friend of the Dewanis’. At the moment she is with the Dewani family in the UK. Too much of a co-incidence.

      Like

  85. Al I quite agree. These gay stories may not may not be true. Could just be the work of Clifford. I haven’t read it myself but Clifford has apparently denied Dewani is gay. My question is how the hell would he know he’s only know him just over 3 weeks.
    Even some wives don’t find out for years that their partners are leading a double life.
    Are you from the U.K.?

    Like

  86. @BEB

    Clifford’s work was planting fake story that there are rumours that Shrien had an affair with a woman mum-of-3.
    You’ll notice that only one paper covered that story and there was no prior buzz about it.
    The gay rumour surfaced ages ago, not just from speculators, but I suspect some people who hate him and see this is an opportunity to put damaging info out there.

    Meanwhile – here’s what his local MP said
    Charlotte Leslie (Bristol North West, Conservative)
    http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2010-12-14a.808.3&s=speaker%3A24891#g813.2
    Is the Minister aware of the situation facing my constituent, Mr Shrien Dewani, and can he inform the House of what measures his Department is taking to ensure that he receives appropriate British support?

    — Nicely worded; but one wonders what the local political networks in bristol are doing to protect him from facing ful legal processes that lesser local mortals would be subjected to. When i read the magistrate’s comments on shrien i could see that he was proud of shrien’s record as a bristol citizen.
    i aint sayin nuttin… but she is Conservative… hmmm
    then i read that his own father was a magistrate.

    Like

  87. Thanks Solly I am aware of all this information and the MP, as I am all over the internet like a rash – hence I can’t be on here so much. lol
    Yes, they certainly do have a network of contacts at their disposal.

    Like

  88. Morning All,
    I asked my partner yesterday – who is sooo not interested and thinks im spending far too much time reading up on this case – l asked his view, and he might have a valid point;
    he thinks there is a possibility that this murder was a set up with someone that Dewani(s) got some business relations to, or owing money to. who has threaten him/them by showing what they are capable of doing,. But Shrien would not say anything as this might lead the media to do more family digging, as the guy got a good reputation, and his dad is a major this might ruin their flashy respected life.

    maybe the police should check a full family record?

    another question I had in my mind: 1500gbp is a lot of money for a poor taxi driver, did Tongo ever show the court the money shrien gave? as if he had that type of money lying around in the first place…he would ask more for more, if he didnt have that type of money then he might needed it, but then he would also be able to show the money that Shrien gave him.

    Like

  89. Check this out!

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3279300/Dewani-got-refund-for-Annis-air-fare.html

    No doubt many of you have already seen this? How low will this guy go? Is there ANYTHING this family won’t do for money? It wouldn’t surprise me if they used Anni’s duty free allowance on the return flight so save some money…

    If I had family in one of their nursing homes I would be withdrawing them prompto! No morals & no ethics. It’s sickening

    Like

  90. @BEB

    Glad there are people allover the internet like a rash on this story!
    Its so interesting circulating info with strangers.

    I also get the feeling that some of the for/against Shrien’s innocence debate is helping some of anni’s friends make sense of
    what is happening by leading them to information sources.

    Like

  91. Yep and will that be hats off you to Yasmin?

    Like

  92. No one seems to asked the obvious question – has S laid any charges in relation to the alleged perpetrators himself or has that little detail passed by? That is, he was supposedly hijacked, robbed, threatened … i dont hear of any charges in relation to any alleged crime against himself??

    Like

    • @Michael C…. Wow, never thought of that! To the best of my knowledge, No. Damn good question.

      Like

    • Oh yeah?! Shrien is claiming to be a “victim” – he should therefore be pressing for criminal charges. Hmmmm… the plot thickens

      Like

  93. Ola peeps…… If he could get a refund on the airticket CAN someone please check if he got a refund on the RING too..??

    Like

  94. @Ann-Marie, Solly
    Damn right! He did not seem to be affectionate at all. They were smiling on the few wedding pics we saw but no, Anni did not look that happy….seemed to be going thru the motions like Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie after an argument. The lady standing behind Anni on the left, is that Anni’s mom? She was not smiling at all…Why was Anni’s dad NOT in that pic?

    Like

    • @Ann-Marie @ Solly

      I found the wedding family pic… Who is the lady on the left behind Anni?

      I sent the pic to the gmail account I created. http://www.gmail.com then username is bjvalerts and password is trickypassword

      Like

  95. Shrien back soon ….? I’m pretty sure that the police have the other hotel employee (who in a tabloid was referred to as “Shrien’s friend) in a witness protection safe house.

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/article819148.ece/Cele–Dewani-back-soon

    Do have a look at the comments at the end of the article..

    Like

  96. Apologies in advance for a dumb question.. Under SA law does a motive need to be established to secure a conviction (guilty verdict) or will witness testimony and evidence (forensic or otherwise) suffice?

    Like

    • @blunose Apologies in advance for a dumb question.. Under SA law does a motive need to be established to secure a conviction (guilty verdict) or will witness testimony and evidence (forensic or otherwise) suffice?

      Definitely not.

      Like

    • Blunose – I don’t think in any court ; incl the UK there needs to be a motive to secure a conviction. I was in a jury once and the Judge simply asked whether the jury find the defendant guilty or not. i.e. if it is proved that a crime had been committed; then the Court doesn’t need to know WHY it was committed.

      Like

  97. @blunose Someone made that statement earlier….no motive, no guilty verdict or words to that effect. Not true at all.

    Like

  98. @ Blunose.. I am no legal expert BUT I would think that IF forensic evidence ties you up to any crime then that should be ample enough reason to secure a conviction…A motive, not necessary ALL the time that 1 is realised COS sometimes people are just SICK… They may murder on Impulse, just for fun or wateva.. Just my opinion…

    Like

  99. @Lee, Alexis

    Phew! Thanks for the clarification. With all the talk of ‘motive’ recently I thought I had missed something. I guess everyones just trying to make sense of this awful situation. Well, heres hoping for a successful extradition… 

    Like

  100. @ Blunose… CHEERS to that….

    Like

  101. No blogging? Ok, our main online papers (SA) are quiet. I think it’s a good thing. We were giving way too much info to Dewani’s legal team and Max. Rest assured the detectives are not taking a break. They may have even asked the media to back off.

    In South Africa we have had 2 rather ‘hit’ cases in the not so recent past. Taliep Petersen’s wife, Nadjwa paid R100000 to have him shot. It was never established whether she pulled the trigger at the time. Another “hit” was paid by Dina Rodrigues to have the baby of her fiance killed (the baby was not hers). Both trials were at the Cape High Court and ran for many months, in fact over a couple of years. Dina was granted bail, it but was later revoked so both Dina & Taliep’s wife were held in custody for the duration of the trial and there were many attempts to get bail. In both cases there were a few hit people involved. I expect this case will run for a long time – Shrien could bankrupt his family. If Shrien was involved in the other hit then I don’t know whether the trials will be run separately or at the same time. My guess is that they will be separate but I’m guessing. Shrien has only himself to blame if it’s a marathon trial.

    Like

  102. @Alexis, I havent seen Anni’s mom in any media pics as yet, Im not quite sure which pic you looking at, but if she got short hair, its her monster in law
    Shriens whole family looks dodgy, and his brother seem to be a big knob…(pardon my french).

    Like

    • Can someone explain to me why my posts would not be appearing on this forum?
      I have tried to post a message several times but it does not appear.
      A post on another topic appeared without problem.

      Like

      • OK I’ll try posting bit by bit:
        ****Part 1****
        The Vexing Question of Motive

        Shrien Dewani: “I’d searched high and low for my perfect partner. Anni was the ‘One’. Her looks, her laughter her personality, her spirit – everything about her was right for me. Why would I want to kill her?“

        (1) A ritual connection?
        “…Prior to entering the restaurant Shrien Dewani asked me what has happening and said he wanted the job done that night.” (Zola Tongo [1])
        Was Shrien working to a schedule? Looking at the calendar [2] I can see: The wedding took place in Mumbai 28th-30th October. The newly-weds fly home and stay with family during Diwali ‘Festival of Light’, 3rd-7th November. On 7th November, Gujarati New Year, they fly to South Africa on honeymoon, spend the first 4 days on Safari, and return to Cape Town on the 12th. Anni was murdered on the evening of the 13th.
        I can find only one matching event in the Hindu calendar: ”Chhath Puja“ – four days 10th-13th November.
        “This is the only holy festival which has no involvement of any priest (Pandit). People celebrate this festival on their own. More than festivities, festival of Chhat Puja in Delhi involves a sacrifice on the part of the devotee, which leads to his purification.” (see [3] and [4])
        Could there be a sinister significance to Chhath Puja (or other event which could relate to the 13th of November)?

        Like

        • ****Part 2****
          (2) Dowry Money?
          “…The practice of demanding and providing a marriage dowry … was prohibited in 1961 but remains prevalent. Cases of women being harassed or set on fire if the dowry is deemed insufficient by their in-laws are also widespread. Some 7,000 cases of dowry deaths occur every year in India, according to women’s rights groups” [5]
          And Anni’s father said there was no dowry paid – see [6]

          And please don’t twist the above questions into a debate about Hinduism. This is about perversions in the corrupt mind of a murderer, and most definitely not about religion.

          Like

      • Hi allesklar

        If a comment contains more than one URL WordPress automatically treats it as ‘spam’ and won’t publish it

        Like

    • @Ann-Marie “@Alexis, I havent seen Anni’s mom in any media pics as yet, Im not quite sure which pic you looking at, but if she got short hair, its her monster in law
      Shriens whole family looks dodgy, and his brother seem to be a big knob…(pardon my french).”

      I cannot find it with Google (quickly). I’ll try for a bit but I do have a photocopy at home which I can scan. When I have it, I’ll let you know then post it to the gmail account. That pic speaks louder than words.

      Like

  103. Allesklar, I dont think there is any ritual in Hinduism to sacrifice a human being….then again Im not Hindu

    I was looking at the dates too, but then a question popped up in my head, why did everyone from Dewani Family go back to UK, when they could stay in India to celebrate Diwali with the Hindocha’s ?

    Like

  104. ****Part 3****
    [1] ‘www.anorak.co.uk/267523/media’
    [2] ‘www.emergingyouths.com/world/70-india/261-hindu-festivals-calendar-2010.html’
    [3] ‘www.sankalpindia.net/drupal/festivals/chhath-puja-thanking-sun-god’
    [4] ‘www.meriyatrra.com/travel-blog/chhath-puja-11-november-2010-festival-sun-god.html’
    [5] ‘topics.dallasnews.com/photo/007Ya8G9h76tf?q=wedding+OR+bride+OR+bridal’
    [6] ‘www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1333717/Anni-Dewani-tears-honeymoon-flight-shot-dead-says-father.html’

    Like

    • It didn’t like the URLs. Here it is in one piece:

      The Vexing Question of Motive

      Shrien Dewani: “I’d searched high and low for my perfect partner. Anni was the ‘One’. Her looks, her laughter her personality, her spirit – everything about her was right for me. Why would I want to kill her?“

      (1) A ritual connection?
      “…Prior to entering the restaurant Shrien Dewani asked me what has happening and said he wanted the job done that night.” (Zola Tongo [1])
      Was Shrien working to a schedule? Looking at the calendar [2] I can see: The wedding took place in Mumbai 28th-30th October. The newly-weds fly home and stay with family during Diwali ‘Festival of Light’, 3rd-7th November. On 7th November, Gujarati New Year, they fly to South Africa on honeymoon, spend the first 4 days on Safari, and return to Cape Town on the 12th. Anni was murdered on the evening of the 13th.
      I can find only one matching event in the Hindu calendar: ”Chhath Puja“ – four days 10th-13th November.
      “This is the only holy festival which has no involvement of any priest (Pandit). People celebrate this festival on their own. More than festivities, festival of Chhat Puja in Delhi involves a sacrifice on the part of the devotee, which leads to his purification.” (see [3] and [4])
      Could there be a sinister significance to Chhath Puja (or other event which could relate to the 13th of November)?

      (2) Dowry Money?
      “…The practice of demanding and providing a marriage dowry … was prohibited in 1961 but remains prevalent. Cases of women being harassed or set on fire if the dowry is deemed insufficient by their in-laws are also widespread. Some 7,000 cases of dowry deaths occur every year in India, according to women’s rights groups” [5]
      And Anni’s father said there was no dowry paid – see [6]

      And please don’t twist the above questions into a debate about Hinduism. This is about perversions in the corrupt mind of a murderer, and most definitely not about religion.

      [1] ‘www.anorak.co.uk/267523/media’
      [2] ‘www.emergingyouths.com/world/70-india/261-hindu-festivals-calendar-2010.html’
      [3] ‘www.sankalpindia.net/drupal/festivals/chhath-puja-thanking-sun-god’
      [4] ‘www.meriyatrra.com/travel-blog/chhath-puja-11-november-2010-festival-sun-god.html’
      [5] ‘topics.dallasnews.com/photo/007Ya8G9h76tf?q=wedding+OR+bride+OR+bridal’
      [6] ‘www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1333717/Anni-Dewani-tears-honeymoon-flight-shot-dead-says-father.html’

      Like

      • BTW What are the chances that some of the more extreme ‘leaks’ to the media are actually plants by a certain media consultant with the aim of manufacturing a “can’t get a fair trial” case?

        Like

  105. allesklar – im not twisting anything, and modern hindus dont ask for dowry – HOWEVER instead they expect the female side to pay most of the wedding expenses & give expensive gifts to the groom side – maybe the contribution towards the wedding or the gifts received wasnt enough for him, and ticked him off????

    Like

    • @Ann-Marie – Sorry about the ‘twisting’ remark – It wasn’t aimed at you – but I saw how some earlier debate was going off the rails about these non-issues. Given the recent revelations about discounted hotel bills and other scams, I’m starting to think the dowry issue could be credible – and perhaps leads to questions about other family members besides Shrien?

      Like

  106. np Allesklar, I have been thinking for a long time that the whole family is involved.

    Like

  107. @Alleskar. thats some interesting info & some good points, same @michaelC.

    I still cant find any info on what date they intended to arrive back from their honeymoon (back to UK or Sweden?).

    @beb you asked where my location is, if you want to discuss info/ bounce some ideas etc make a temporary email account specifically for this purpose, feel free to email me salt2010 (at) live.com remove (at) replace with @ 🙂

    Like

  108. DOUBLE LIFE, KARAMR WILL GET YOU DEWANI, SICK SICK SICK, RIP ANNIE

    Like

  109. @ AL ON THE ‘GAY’ RUMOURS

    I didn’t know that there was an alleged slimebag rich publicist who will do anything for his wealthy clients called Max Clifford until this whole dewani story.
    So I see Clifford through the eyes of British, I can only assume they know why they think he’s not trustworthy.

    Its now THE MIRROR vs DAILY MAIL/ SUN in the Shrien honeymoon horror saga.

    When the gay story hit on The Sun, I thought – no, this is Max trying to get everyone confused.

    But then The Mirror.co.uk brought out the mum-of -3 affair story. Implying that Dewani is hetero.
    Then I realised – no, it is THE Mirror story is MAX. No one else ran that silly mum-of-3 story.
    It started to look like the mum-of-3 affair story was the attempt to REMOVE the GAY rumours.

    Bear in mind, the gay rumours had an independent origins from Shrien haters on the net.
    It was ‘verified’ by a journalist who said “its an open secret in bristol that dewani is gay.

    The Sun comes through with German Master rent boy ‘exclusive’.

    If you go on the rentanescort website, you can actually SEE german masters face.
    So he isnt hiding himself.

    Also realise that The Sun is saying this man went to the British Police.
    They didnt say he told the Sun.

    I don’t trust tabloids, but I trust their appetite for money and a story that sells.

    Now, the MIRROR has come through with this:
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/12/18/this-is-the-seedy-pawnshop-where-south-african-police-believe-shrien-dewani-changed-1-000-in-cash-on-the-day-of-his-wife-s-murder-115875-22791257/

    This story’s whole purpose is make Shrien look like an ignorant tourist who only ever took Tongo’s advice about
    the money.
    It tries shows that Tongo had a long standing relationship with the undercover foreign exchange shop and it was Tongo who stood to gain from Shrien’s ‘undercover’ transactions by getting a tip from the owner.

    Note however that Tongo did not DENY this in his ‘confession’; he actually said it just as the Mirror reprots it.
    Shrien asked Tongo to take him to a place for good exchange, so Tongo admitted that he took him to a place that he normally uses.

    It is the Mirror that must be in Clifford’s pocket guys.

    I think the other tabloids are thinking: We’ll make more money by digging into Dewani’s life independently, his ‘real’ life is better than any story Max promises to feed us!

    What do others think?

    Like

  110. ON QUEER OUTING

    Assuming that the SUN got the right escort and did not assume that there is only one ‘German Master’ out there and thus put the wrong picture in their paper. (Cant trust the Sun)

    People have been wondering why it is that this male escort has only turned up now to talk about his alleged transactions.

    The first theory is that – It is obviously Max Clifford trying to confuse everyone. I doubt this theory coz its WORSE for his client if someone confirms already existing rumours about his sexuality. I also doubt that Max would pay someone to lie to the police on a murder case, he may be slimy, but I dont think he is abets murder.

    The second theory is that – The escort is trying to make money from a high profile murder story. This is patronising. Why would this mature professional decide to make a quick buck off by lying about knowing some odd guy no one knows who allegedly bumped off his wife in some place called south africa? I don’t think this is a deliberate marketing strategy. But it may end up inadvertedly advertising him.

    The third theory – He actually came out because he believes if he speaks the truth it may help the police get closer to solving a murder.
    Why do male escorts and undercover male lovers OUT their closeted partners ever?
    I believe it only happens if the person strongly believes that if they do not tell the police or the public something, an injustice will be committed.
    This male escort is part of a reputable service, he is a professional, and a contributing citizen.
    He is open about his sexuality and has no problems being identified with the sex profession.
    His face is allover the escort website.
    The website is public, not hidden.
    I can only assume that this guy, like any other person out there who believes in truth and justice, did what he did for moral reasons.
    Its like prostitutes/ mistresses who tell on politicians who act pious in public but do the complete opposite in the bedroom.
    If the politician/ pastor supports policies detrimental to people, that individual may feel that it is better to ‘expose’ them so that the public knows that the person is actually hypocritical bigot who says one thing for public power, but acts differently in their private world.

    That is why I believe this man may have come forward now. Not to expose a ‘client’, or ‘make money’ but in case it helps police.
    It is bad business for an escort to seem untrustworthy; but as a good citizen, he may have felt moral pressure to speak.

    This is my theory which may be disproved by time when it emerges that the SUN lied, hyped, distorted, faked, just to sell!!!!

    I’m open to being disproved.

    Like

  111. @Solly
    ON QUEER OUTING

    Assuming that the SUN got the right escort and did not assume that there is only one ‘German Master’ out there and thus put the wrong picture in their paper. (Cant trust the Sun)
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I read the article for the first time today in our Weekend Argus. I’m curious as to why he took so long to come forward. If it appears in our Mail & Guardian then I’ll start paying attention to it. He is saying there were 3 occasions. Surely there must have been other people if Shrien is gay….if they don’t come forward… Trust me, the cops / court will get to the bottom of this. On the other hand, we are ridden with corruption & fraud in this country….cops & courts are no exception.

    Like

  112. This blog is now being detected by Google Alerts. You should have seen that if you logged into gmal, user = bjvalerts password=trickypassword

    Canadian Police Car Chase | The Mad Hatters
    By duncanr
    blunose on Shrien Dewani : Innocent or Gu… Tony on Time Magazine Shameful De… Alexis – Cape Town, … on Shrien Dewani : Innocent or Gu… Tony on Caption this . . . Alexis – Cape Town, … on Shrien Dewani : 2nd Murder… …

    The Mad Hatters – https://madhatters.me.uk/

    Like

    • http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/12/18/this-is-the-seedy-pawnshop-where-south-african-police-believe-shrien-dewani-changed-1-000-in-cash-on-the-day-of-his-wife-s-murder-115875-22791257/
      Something Shrien did not know is that there are 1000s of CCTV cameras all over the City as well as the freeways !

      Honeymoon husband ‘changed £1K in pawnshop on day of wife’s murder’

      by Laurie Hanna, Daily Mirror 18/12/2010
      Shrien Dewani 450 (Pic:PhilHarris)

      Detectives have quizzed staff at a seedy pawnshop where South African police believe Shrien Dewani changed £1,000 in cash on the day of his wife’s murder.

      Officers have quizzed staff at the Golden Touch jewellers and reckon the millionaire businessman handed over the money without showing any ID.

      They say they have CCTV footage two days later showing Shrien handing cash to taxi driver Zola Tongo, 31 – allegedly to pay the hitmen who killed his new wife Anni, 28, on their honeymoon. Dewani, 30, denies any involvement in the killing.

      Pawnshop staff have given police statements as well as CCTV footage of the day.

      Owner Maria remembers Tongo bringing an English man in to exchange cash.

      But the amount was so large she had to take it elsewhere to change. The deal lasted no more than 10 minutes.

      She said: “We have lots of taxi drivers, especially over the World Cup period. He came with Tongo, who chatted with my female staff while I changed the money. I don’t remember the Englishman’s face but I remember the amount. Maybe he was wearing sunglasses but I see so many faces in a day it’s impossible to remember them.

      “The girls all remember Tongo. I didn’t give a receipt. I gave him the top rate as a favour.”

      Tongo was last week sentenced to 18 years in jail for murder, kidnapping, robbery with aggravating circumstances and perverting the course of justice.

      Two other men – Xolile Mnguni, 23, and Mziwamadoda Qwabe, 25 – face charges of murder, aggravated robbery and kidnapping.

      Dewani was arrested on suspicion of conspiring to murder Anni and is fighting extradition to South Africa from his home in Bristol after being granted bail for a £250,000 surety.

      The pawnshop in Cape Town he is said to have visited is close to official currency changers.

      Advertisement – article continues below »
      Quantcast

      Yesterday it was busy with local punters being buzzed in through in a metal security gate.

      Asked why a millionaire tourist would come to her, Maria, in her 40s, said: “People have different reasons. Sometimes they don’t have ID with them.”

      The next highest amount she could remember recently changing was £193 from an Iranian couple.

      Sitting behind a kiosk, she offered a steady stream of mainly young men, cash for jewellery on a no-questions-asked basis. She said Tongo had been a regular customer, bringing small change in foreign tips that she collects and then changes with official dealers.

      On the day of Anni’s murder, she said Tongo had asked to look at a bracelet but did not buy it.

      Before he and the English man left she remembers Tongo asked her for his commission but she told him he could only have 10 rand as she had given the “top rate”.

      The driver gave the money to one female worker while handing his phone number to another, she said. The two women were unwilling to talk to us yesterday.

      Last night the Dewanis’ spokesman Max Clifford said: “Shrien asked the taxi driver where was the best place to get the best rate and it was the taxi driver who took him there. It was his decision to go there and not Shrien’s.”

      A Dewani family source added: “Shrien was so in love with Anni, she was the woman of his dreams, he was smitten by her.

      “Every day they would be calling each other until the early hours of the morning and again first thing when they woke up. We have phone records to prove this. He is absolutely devastated. He’s distraught.

      “It was not arranged, there was no dowry or pre-nup, they just wanted to spend the rest of their lives together.

      “Shrien is being persecuted, not prosecuted. He is not a monkey, murderer or evil. He played no part in her murder.”

      Read more: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/12/18/this-is-the-seedy-pawnshop-where-south-african-police-believe-shrien-dewani-changed-1-000-in-cash-on-the-day-of-his-wife-s-murder-115875-22791257/#ixzz18SQJYA9Q
      Go Camping for 95p! Vouchers collectable in the Daily and Sunday Mirror until 11th August . Click here for more information

      Like

  113. @ALEXIS

    In terms of how the case has taken twist and turns, the escort has come out pretty quick.
    Because remember, it is not as if Shrien is guilty here.
    If the escort is genuine, he is taking a huge risk by bringing this info forward because it tells us nothing really.
    Who Shrien sleeps with isn’t a matter of public concern unless it has something to do with the case.
    Remember Anni died only a month ago, for about a week, there was sympathy with shrien, the 2nd week, the sympathy turned into suspicion, by the third week there were clearly pro vs anti innocence camps.
    By week 4, the escort is thinking, no man, maybe I should tell the cops coz I dont know if this will help.

    So it was pretty fast. Slow would have been if it took the guy months to make his allegations.

    That is, assuming this story has any basis in reality.

    Like

  114. @Solly. Less than 24 hours after Anni’s body was found, 1000s of South Africans logged onto the online newspapers and said no, something sounds fishy about Shrien’s version of events. I hear you that it took foreigners at least 7-10 days but even so I would have thought that by the time this case moved from the Regional Court to the High Court (that place was crawling with cameramen and photographers from all over the world), that pretty much everybody had either read or heard about it. I’m sure that the truth will come out sooner or later – damn I hope so. Bernard Blum said this about a week ago (is he still blogging with us?). On Saturday afternoons I used to look forward to our Bollywood movie of the week but since Anni died, I can no longer watch those movies 😦

    Like

  115. @ALEXIS

    I picked this up on real time google

    “If #dewani driver was moonlighting & knew he would lose his job once this came out, why did he only demand 1000 rand? It makes no sense”

    – Tongo seems to have risked a lot for 5000 (not 1000).

    -Either he and Monde has implicated Shrien to get off
    OR
    – The theory that Shrien knew tongo from before could apply. The unconfirmed report from a paper Shrien walked straight to tongo at airport would come into play here.

    Like

  116. @Solly
    I picked this up on real time google

    Ok, allow me to explain. The fee for the hit was R15000.00 (rands). Three people were involved, the driver and the 2 hijackers. The R15000 was left under the front seat. When the job was complete, Shrien paid the driver (part of the deal) an additional R1000.00.
    Re the Tongo & Mbolombo, Mbolombo was an employee at a Protea Hotel in Town. A few weeks ago the cops said they were looking for another suspect who was a top hotel employee who also knew Shrien from an earlier visit to SA – they alleged he was the middleman. It is Mbolombo now who apparently stated that Shrien asked him to recruit the hit men. Tongo got 18 years, just 7 off a life-sentence of 25. It is sad, because apparently he was a polite and friendly man (1st time offender). Mbolombo also stated that Shrien boasted about the other hit in King Williamstown which is where Mbolombo lived and where Dr Pox ? (his ex is currently staying with the Dewanis’ in Bristol) was also assassinated.
    So even I am confused. Mbolombo has since gone underground but is co-operating with the cops.
    Here is something else that bugs me. Tongo used a free Legal Aid lawyer and the other 2 were/are using private lawyers. Who the heck is paying the bills? Cannot be the hijackers, no, no, no. Also I am nervous about one of them requesting bail – won’t happen before early Feb….it’s scary…what if he gets a bullet? I can assure you I don’t like this Dewani family, they give me the creeps….reminds me of the mafia.
    Hope that clears up the confusion.

    Like

    • Alexis – can you please clear one thing for me?

      You imply that Shrien had been to SA before. Yet didn’t Shrien tell SA police that it was his 1st visit?

      Like

    • Alexis – can you please clarify one point for me?

      You imply that Shrien had been to SA before. Yet didn’t Shrien tell SA Police that it was his 1st visit?

      Like

  117. @Solly … There can be little doubt that this was planned before Shrien arrived in Cape Town. How do we know that Shrien was not just implicated by Tongo? Easy…the murder was too “clean”. I was miserable when I read an Australian’s comment that we have 2 murders a week in SA! We have 45 a day!!! A Rape every 60 seconds or less. Life is cheap in SA and the murders horrible, grotesque. Sorry that I had to say that but it’s important and very relevant. There was a young boy on his bicycle in a township years ago who was robbed of either R7 or R20. The robber gorged his eyes out so that he’d never be able to ID him. Farm murders are horrible as well – you can rather Google than have me say it here.

    Hence the need for lots of CCTV cameras and there are lots, not just in Cape Town. I am single but I don’t go out at night unless it’s an emergency and then I plan my route beforehand. I also don’t stop at robots or stop streets unless there is a camera. During the day I’m fine though. You need to be aware of the problem areas and trust me Tongo knew them.
    I still have not ruled out a drug drop or something drug related which went wrong. Time will tell.

    Like

  118. @Alexis

    One thing you’re pointing to is that this Mbolombo guy is the one to watch.

    I think that is why police have him under witness protection.

    Maybe He knows too much, unlike Tongo who can just be chucked in jail and no one worry about what happens to him.

    Hmm

    DEEPER AND DEEPER!

    Like

  119. For Shrien Support on Facebook visit/ search group called –
    The truth is greater than any untruth told

    Like

  120. SHRIEN AND GAMILY GAVE UP PLS, YOU ARE EVIL AND I CANT WAIT FOR JUSTICE FOR ANI, YOU R DISHONEST AND LIVE A DOUBLE LIFE. WHY DID YOU HAVE TO HURT THIS BEAUTIFUL WOMAN AND FAMILY?

    ANSWERS PLS

    Like

  121. Okay, I am once again going once again point out the similarities of this case to that of the McCann case which I did when I first came on here. For those that do not know I have summarised below.

    I believe that despite all this evidence from the SA police authorities – to me it seems at the end of the day the decision to extradite lays in the hands of one man the U.K extradition Judge. Now put it his way the British establishment have danced all over the ‘grave’ (body never actually found) of little 3 year old Madeleine McCann – who then trusts this judge to extradite Dewani for an adult Swedish Hindu?? Sadly I hope I am wrong but I must admit I have now lost compete faith in those that hold power here. Sure the nation’s people are good, but it is not up to them to decide the extradition is it.

    SUMMARY

    McCann’s (2 British doctors) and friends (some also doctors) on holiday in Portugal and their 3 old daughter (Madeleine) goes missing from their apartment after being left by them every night as parents go out to dinner.

    The parents claim ‘abduction’ – police arrive – McCann’s friends all over the apartment. Two police officers pick up Madeleine’s younger 18 month old twins Sean and Amelie who have also been left every night. They do NOT wake up despite noise and strangers lifting them from their cots. (sedation???)

    McCann’s immediately contact news back in U.K. -then shortly have Clarence Mitchell who gives up a GOVERNMENT post to become their spin doctor.

    Two British dogs Eddie blood dog and Keela cadavar dog go into apartment. Eddie finds blood on wall on curtains and floor of apartment.

    Keela finds Cavadar in various places but importantly on Mrs McCann’s clothes and belongings.(Keela is the very famous British dog that countries hire from all over the world (she even earns more than the chief of Police at her station in U.K.)

    So you from the outset Dewani has copied the McCann’s who despite overwhelming evidence and their story being altered by them too numerous times to mention they have NEVER been brought to trial.

    Here are the questions Mrs McCann refused to answer police except the last one which was;

    – Are you aware that in not answering the questions you are jeopardizing the investigation, which seeks to discover what happened to your daughter?

    – “Yes, if that’s what the investigation thinks.” (ARROGANT)

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/2500864/Madeleine-McCann-Kate-McCann-refused-to-answer-48-questions-from-Portuguese-police.html

    Here Mr and Mrs McCann say they Never actually looked for their missing daughter!

    Like

  122. The similarities are strange.
    It must be fashionable in the UK to get PR when you lose a relative?
    Is it the reality tv psyche?
    You want to star in your own real life drama like other accidental reality tv people?

    I dont think blood in the room proves these people killed their baby; it just proves the child bled?
    How would they make the body vanish?

    I think its disturbing that people who are supposed to be mourning pay PR people.
    What’s going on with the civilised First world these days!

    Like

  123. DEAR MAX (why the heck not write it openly, he’s scouring the net to figure out how to represent his client)

    Thanks for the deluge of information casting Shrien Dewani in a decent light.
    This is helping us to get somewhere since he has been quiet and all you have been saying is ‘LUDICROUS’.
    We won’t ask any further questions on why he went Gugs.

    What puzzles us are more mundane questions – all the information you have thus provided shows us that Shrien was besotted with Anni, that he wanted the best for her, that he was excited to go off on a brilliant honeymoon in the beautiful Cape. We know to that prior to this trauma, Shrien is normally a strong individual who runs a multimillion dollar business and commanded a private jet to pop the question.

    1) Why did he take her out walking at dirty nasty ugly dark beach at 9.30pm on an extremely windy night? Or did the tabloids misquote him? Please clarify.

    2) Was Tongo, a cabbie, so overwhelmingly persuasive that as his wealthy besotted clients arrived at Strand Mall, a drab looking ordinary place, they just looked around and thought “this is perfect for our honeymoon!”
    Yes yes they were not obliged to eat in better more comfortable places with nicer beaches, but why did Shrien not insist that Tongo take them to a more suitable place?

    Right now it looks as though Shrien accepted this poor choice of venue because he was part of a conspiracy anyway.
    In much the same way it looks like Shrien accepted a trip (at Tongo’s suggestion as you say) to the ghetto because he was part of a conspiracy anyway.

    Is it common for intelligent, strong, besotted couples to allow their cabbie to dictate where they go for their meals on their honeymoon?

    Once the dumb cabbie has taken you to a dark and bleak ghetto, do you not insist that he find a better choice that is appropriate for your honeymoon and level of income?

    In which case Shrien should have put his foot down when he entered that mall.

    Please help us to make sense of this. We’ll be awaiting your response either via facebook fake profiles or articles in The Mirror.

    Like

  124. Dewani is from the U.K and would have know the McCann case and hence he knew what to do and hired spin doctor. I never said they killed their daughter most people who have followed the McCann case from the very beginning – thought she had accidentally slipped – hence blood in apartment.

    So first question Solly. What parents do not ACTUALLY look for their missing 3 year old? I know I would have run around hysterically screaming like a banshee/headless chicken.

    Like

  125. @BEB

    I am not familiar with the McCann case, I know there were suspicions that they killed her or something.
    So you think it was accidental. If it was, all they have to do is tell the police surely?
    Yes that is a sensible question about the looking for your child.

    Is there something in the water that U.K that is creating narcissistic crazies looking for their 15 minutes of fame via actual personal tragedies??

    Like

  126. I have a feeling the SAPolice are holding back devastating evidence against Shrien to reveal at extradition hearing.

    PROFILE OF A SOCIOPATH
    http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

    Like

  127. “Psychopaths exhibit a Jekyll and Hyde personality. “They play a part so they can get what they want,” says Dr. Sheila Willson, a Toronto psychologist who has helped victims of psychopaths. The guy who showers a woman with excessive attention is much more capable of getting her to lend him money, and to put up with him when he strays. The new employee who gains her co-workers’ trust has more access to their chequebooks. And so on. Psychopaths have no conscience and their only goal is self-gratification. Many of us have been their victims — at work, through friendships or relationships — and not one of us can say, “a psychopath could never fool me.”

    Like

  128. Hi Solly

    I and many others suspect that they had to dispose of her body to prevent evidence of what may have been going on during that holiday week. Possibly sedation of their children, as they left them alone every night to dine with their friends. When the McCann’s raised the alarm and claimed that Madeleine had been abducted – as I posted above the twins did NOT wake up, even though McCann’s friends and police were all over the apartment. The twins were lifted out of their cots by two strangers ( two members of the police) and did not wake up!!!

    The McCann’s as doctors must have decided that they would be ruined by this all coming out -hence abduction story. So you see as Dewani lives in the U.K. his first thought as an ‘innocent man’ was ‘ I must hire a spin doctor’!

    I think it’s more a case of how can I get away with this. Though some people do think Kate and Gerry McCann are narcissistic too.

    Like

    • @Ann-Marie

      Time now 8:26pm. I heard that on the 7pm news. That is old news which came from the cops more than a week ago, maybe 10 days or more. They said that from the angle of the bullet wound it appeared that Anni might have been shot by accident during a scuffle or possibly during a argument over possibly raping Anni. I am so sick and tired of the Dewani creep. The cops must have damning evidence against him and he knows that which is why he is going to fight the extradition (as per 7pm news). He reads the damn news, possibly following this blog – (what happened to his dear friend Andrew?) then formulates a response / press statement.

      Like

      • Obviously, whether the shot was accidental or not says nothing about the existence of a conspiracy to murder. In trying to push this risible argument, the dewani gang have shown yet again that logic is not their strength.

        Like

  129. @Ann Marie

    Thanks for link,
    What puzzles me is that we’ve known that it was an accidental shot since Shrien contested bail.
    The lawyers have already argued this in Bristol.
    Why do papers report old news like its NEWS?
    Or is this part of the PR strategy?

    Like

    • @Solly – On the 7pm news we were told that Shrien released that statement. Please read my previous entry.

      Like

  130. Also on the 7pm news they said that the family released pics of the dancing together at the wedding…

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1339877/Anni-Dewani-murder-Couple-sing-wedding-video-dance.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

    Like

  131. The video of the last dance is so sad, it made the tears well up to my eyes (& Im a man) Anni : a once living, enjoying life, breathing human being, a beautiful woman, a woman who is no longer with us because of some ruthless heartless murderers.

    I read recently about that the dewanis tried to hire a private investigator a few hours after Anni went missing
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/southafrica/8212556/Shrien-Dewanis-family-tried-to-hire-private-detective-in-hours-after-carjacking.html

    this was never mentioned ..EVER by max or dewani’s until now…so it definitely looks like some major PR going on. (only after dewani PR team has been reading public views/questions/opinions lol.)

    Also I read that shrien is now carrying around with him a barbie doll (which apparently he bought for Anni) wow that is what kate mcgann did with Madeleines toy.
    http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/218273/-Barbie-shrine-to-bride-I-loved-so-much-

    Like

  132. I’m a BARBIE girl.. in a Barbie World.. wrapped in plastic.. so fantastic.. U can brush my hair .. undress me… Uhmmmmmm???
    Does it surprise anyone or does it amuse JUST ME that a DOLL has now come into the scene… It can also prove that he loves to play with Dolls..?? LOL LOL!!… In Max Clifford’s words.. I just wanna say.. :- LUDICROUS!!!!!……

    Like

  133. @Lee

    I told everyone to expect this! The more the cops blurt out (subjudice!!!) the more stories he will invent and it prepares his attorneys to formulate his response.

    It’s time for the South African Police Services to zip their bloody lips !!!

    Like

  134. @ Alexis.. My thoughts exactly.. BUT on the other hand its actually the Media that’s making a hub-hub about all this , I would say… I mean we are not hearing all the allegations directly from the “horse’s mouth”.. It’s always “SOURCES”… BUT nevertheless this is becoming exhausting & the more that leaks out to the media THE more that the “suspect” & his team are going to counteract OR I should say find excuses/reasons to justify such allegations…
    I think actually that there should be some stringent/stricter laws that restrict the media from publishing certain info… ??..
    HOWEVER, I believe that the more that leaks out .. the more chances of Shrien walking away from all of this a free man… AND from the beginning of this frenzy, which , in my opinion , seems to be turning into a cricus more & more each day.. I am slightly worried that Shrien may escape extradition & therefore the REAL TRUTH may NEVER be revealed……. :(…
    SO YEH.. SOMEONE.. SOMEWHERE .. NEEDS TO ZIP IT!!

    Like

  135. !Lee….HOWEVER, I believe that the more that leaks out .. the more chances of Shrien walking away from all of this a free man… AND from the beginning of this frenzy, which , in my opinion , seems to be turning into a cricus more & more each day.. I am slightly worried that Shrien may escape extradition & therefore the REAL TRUTH may NEVER be revealed……. 😦 …
    SO YEH.. SOMEONE.. SOMEWHERE .. NEEDS TO ZIP IT!!

    My sentiments exactly!!!

    Like

  136. @ Solly , Beb….. YEH the McCann Case was really intiguing… :(.. I mean they too (if I am correct) went back home very quickly after their child was “murdered”..
    I have read MANY MANY strabge cases of where actually PARENTS were involved in their own kid’s deaths.. eg a Mom on drugs who accidentally put her BABY into the WASHING MACHINE along with other clothes & did not realise it since she was on drugs UNTIL a friend popped by & heard strange noises from the spinning cycle.. 😦 ..
    SO REALLY.. ANYTHING can happen.. EVEN IF ITS BY “ACCIDENT”.. and people should just admit their MISTAKES 😦 instead of being in denial.. cos in reality a conscience eats you up eventually… Alas, some people don’t even have a conscience!!….
    And really.. WHOEVER leaves kids (AT THAT AGE).. ALONE (no “nanny” even) at that LATE HOUR OF NITE to go dine with friends in a foreign country.. ????ANSWER:-……….SOMEONE Like Shrien Dewani who would take his bride on a township tour in the middle of the night!!………………………….
    Hope this sets the similarities straight….

    Like

  137. Perhaps some who have pre-judged Shrien’s guilt and written in this forum may care to read this article which appeared yesterday in The Independent on Sunday newspaper. (In contrast to the Mirror, the Independent is not generally regarded as a tabloid and does not rely on trivia for its circulation):
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/murder-of-anni-dewani-the-bridegrooms-story-2164391.html

    Like

    • @Martin

      Any idea how many journos have taken bribes in SA? I’m sure the same applies in the UK.

      Why does Shrien not want to come back to SA? Why is he planning to fight the extradition?

      The Judge President at the Western Cape High Court, The Honourable Judge Hlope is one of the fairest Judges in this country – possibly the world. I have corresponded with him and met him twice in Chambers. He resided at the previous court appearance when Tongo was sentenced. So don’t try telling me that Shrien won’t get a fair trial. As far as I am concerned he already has the upper hand because some cops leaked too much evidence to the media, that’s bloody unfair.

      I happen to have the email addresses of the Snr cops both in CPT and Pretoria and I am going to email & fax them asap because this is bullshit!

      Like

  138. @ Martin – Thanks for the link .. HOWEVER it only gives answers by the family that deny he is involved , which is obvious, because nobody who has reared a child in an upbringing as His would EVER believe that he/she would ever be capable of such a deed…
    What leaves me STILL boggled after reading that article is the fact that HE claims to have tried making contact with the SA authorities here BUT to no avail… ???
    It is rather strange HOWEVER that Anni’s dad find them co-operative …???? & they were constantly keeping him updated right UNTIL the day of the driver’s trial, when Mr Hindocha even flew down here to HEAR WHAT REALLY HAPPENED???…
    HE IS THE FATHER.. who played a role in CREATING THE BEAUTIFUL ANNI.. YET he found the strength to come face everyone @ Court JUST SO THAT.. he could learn the truth…??..
    What was so difficult then for a HUSBAND to do the same.. OR was HE expecting a “special invitation” by the SA Authorities???…..

    Like

  139. @ Martin – thanks for the link re The Independent on Sunday newspaper article. However ; whilst that paper is Independent ; it doesn’t imply that it is competent i.e

    Why (in the Q & A ) section didn’t they ask things like:
    *Why didn’t you put up a fight before they let you go?
    *How come you don’t have any injuries from being ejected from a moving vehicle?
    *How is it possible for a fully grown man to be forcibly removed from the back window of a VW Sharan van (opening 32cm); whilst he was (presumably) struggling?

    Like

    • Why (in the Q & A ) section didn’t they ask things like:
      *Why didn’t you put up a fight before they let you go? – TRY GETTING A GUN TO YOUR HEAD AND SEE IF YOU CAN PUT UP A FIGHT – KNOWING ONE FLASE MOVE, THINGS COULD TURN OUT REAL BAD. EVEN A TRAINED COP WOULD FIND IT HARD TO REACT WITH A FIGHT
      *How come you don’t have any injuries from being ejected from a moving vehicle? – HE WAS FORCED OUT AT POINT POINT.
      *How is it possible for a fully grown man to be forcibly removed from the back window of a VW Sharan van (opening 32cm); whilst he was (presumably) struggling? GUN POINT- YOU DO AS YOU ARE TOLD.

      Like

  140. @ Andy Stone… GOOD ONE!!!!…………..
    Independent…… n BIASED???………

    Like

  141. @Lee, Andy et al, I would reply that at no time has Anni’s father been under the eye of suspicion or likely to be prosecuted for her murder. Presumable because the very thought is abhorrent to most people.
    However, many do seem to find it credible that a man will choose to marry and quickly murder a woman when he clearly had a free choice not to marry her(as happened to his previous fiancee), choose somebody else, stay single, take holy orders or do whatever with his life like most of the rest of us.
    Also, to require that people not directly involved such as journalists in a respected national newspaper be implicated in a conspiracy by Shrien to further an argument might be stretching the elastic a little?

    Like

  142. @ Martin.. NOR was SHRIEN “under the eye of suspicion” WHEN SA Authorities ALLOWED him to go back home…!! AT THAT STAGE .. HE WAS NOT A SUSPECT………………….
    YET, he still engaged the services of a PR & Attorney.. ONE cannot help but speculate his reasons for doing so..
    IF there is anyone @ all to be blamed for the predicament that Shrien finds himself in at present.. media speculation, public attention etc.. is SIMPLY because HE has BROUGHT IT UPON HIMSELF!!…
    WHAT IS THE NEED FOR HIRING OF MAX.. Really??… When INSTEAD his family esp BRO & DAD can act as his spokeperson/s…
    IF people want to go BACK N FORTH criticising SA & the manner in which this case is being handled… Also blaming SA for trying to blame this 1 on Shrien for the sake of “tourism” I find this mudslinging totally ridiculous COS @ the end of the day SA Citizens can be JUST AS BLATANT and say stuff like “His dad is a magistrate… First he was denied bail AFTER the application from SA Authorities.. THEN suddenly BAIL was allowed”… WHY aren’t people questioning THAT angle & accusing them of having “people in high places”… SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY RESPECT THE DECISION MADE BY THE UK COURTS AND NOT LOOKING FOR EXCUSES!!

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  143. p/s:- An afterthought @ Martin… It’s easy to say that 1 SHOULD NOT hold jurnalists accountable or implicate them in a conspiracy with Shrien.. YET on the other hand its OK to accuse SA Authorities of SETTING UP ALL THIS by implicating him in this tragic event??…
    So 1 should rather take the words of media people , who often “stretch the truth” to suit sales figures?? RATHER than taking the word of professional investigators , who have found reasons to point Shrien as a suspect, BECAUSE they have found EVIDENCE..?? DOESN’T MAKE SENSE TO ME…….

    Like

  144. @ Lee- I was trying to point how that Dewani knew of McCann case and how they avoided justice despite a case to answer.They hired a spin doctor Clarence Mitchell – Dewani immediately hired spin doctor Max Clifford.
    In the U.K we were bombarded with Mitchell spin – for the McCanns now it is Clifford spin for Dewani.
    The point I was simply trying to make is I have grave doubts that Dewani will be extradited.

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  145. @Lee – Should have said all the nonesense one’s reads over here in U.K is the Clifford spin. Trying to confuse, and once again just as in the McCann case people are confused by it. As far as I can see the info from SA authorities is backed up by evidence. Whereas a lot of what is in our UK press is just Dewani/Clifford spin!!!!! People with money and people in very high places seem in these two cases to have the winning hand!

    Like

  146. @ Beb.. Here in SA “EVIDENCE” and the Media talks…UNFORUNATELY in the UK Max Clifford or should I put it this way “MONEY TALKS”…
    People with money can afford to contest all avenues & I do face the same fear that He may eventually NOT be extradited .. BUT my daily prayer is that all JUDGES concerned make the CORRECT decisions based on facts presented &seek justice for Anni & her family..
    The other thing that is tugging my HEART strings is the fact that Mr Hindocha has requested Shrien to “Go to SA & let the world know what happened”.. 😦
    AT LEAST RESPECT YOUR FATHER-IN-LAW’S WISHES in this regard IF you are NOT guilty .. I would think???…
    This may give them a reason to get offthat fence they probably sitting in right now.. IF there is anyone that CAN bring CLOSURE to this whole mess .. it is SHRIEN himself.. So DO NOT BE SELFISH.. AND LET THE TRUTH BE KNOWN.. That is if he is capable of telling the truth @ all…
    Why let the Hindocha Family endure any MORE TORTURE than they deserve..??

    Like

  147. @ BEB.. I think that the ONLY people who will be confused by all Max’s talks & justifications ARE those who are not sensible.. COS any educated person , with common sense & knowledge WOULD NOT be falling for his tactical justifications and seemingly boring LUDICROUS remarks..
    What bothers me is that a PR guy who represented celebrities during scandalous affairs/divorces etc CAN ACTUALLY represent someone “implicated” in MURDER???…..How much does MAX really KNOW about the Dewani’s???..OR is he just blinded by the ching-ching$$$$$…..??

    Like

  148. @Lee, you’re doing just great…. Don’t let them get to you. Let them believe what they’d like to believe. I noticed on the 7pm news last night, no word was mentioned about Max. They said his lawyers released x and his family released x…. Is Max still around?

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  149. 🙂 @ Alexis… Thanx.. I will not be persuaded to believe that there is NO CASE here against Shrien..
    As for MAX he maybe busy negotiating a BARBIE DOLL DEAL so that in future IF one decides to rid of their spouse they would be able to fill the gap with.. Barbie!!… X
    Enjoy the rest of the afternoon guys.. Will log on soon……………….. X

    Like

  150. LEE – Well in the McCann case over here most people were just getting info from their Daily papers and not the internet. There were perhaps about a thousand/few hundred on the net at the time that did not believe the McCann story because just like the Dewani fairy tale it was full of holes.

    Because of the internet this meant that some of us were getting info direct from Portugal and hence it was quickly apparent that the McCann’s story was complete twaddle. There was a whole newspaper forum here in the U.K and hundreds weren’t buying the McCann story – however they the (mcCanns)had powerful people and the forum was closed down. Now all the British people except the few on the net simply had only the Clarence Mitchell (spin doctor) for their truth of this case.
    The difference being this time around we have Facebook with all it’s potential of spreading Dewani’s unbelievable, inconsistent and ever changing story across the globe.

    Max Clifford is a vampire – he defends a suspect in a murder case. He even know apparently that Dewani is not gay??? In his constant effort to absolve Dewani of everything he claims he even knows this? He has only know him for just over 4 weeks how the hell would he know that?? Even some wives do not find out this for years and years.
    By the way Max Clifford’s new name is Max Christian Handerson Clifford, or so I’ve heard. lol

    Like

  151. Dewani Spin only throws up new speculation for internet sleuths

    Over the past few days PR guru Max Clifford presented what seemed like a formidable and cogent media defence of his embattled client, Shrien Dewani.

    This included video footage of the couple’s touching and romantic wedding dance, articles in the press presenting the groom’s side of the story, some of which included testimonies from his close friends and associates who are appalled at the image of Dewani portrayed in media and internet speculation.

    In spite of this, most internet forums discussing the case continue to lean towards scepticism.

    Apart from similarities being drawn with the PR strategies deployed in the case of Madeleine McCann, and the peculiar matter of the grieving groom’s reported attachment to a Barbie doll he presented to his late wife, ‘net sleuths’ are probing for proof that the honeymoon couple arrived at the Cape Grace in a Mercedes Benz.

    A Facebooker on the ‘Anni Dewani – What Really Happened’ discussion page has queried a disjuncture between what the Mail on Sunday reported about the honeymooners arrival at Cape Grace and what the Dewani family said in a recent statement.

    According to a report by the Mail on Sunday reporter Barbara Jones, second-by-second CCTV footage shows the couple arriving at the Cape Grace on 12 November and alighting from a silver VW Sharan.

    http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Husband%27s+liaisons+with+taxi+driver+caught+on+camera.-a0244063453

    However, in a statement quoted by Independent on Sunday, the Dewani family reported that the couple chose Zola Tongo because he was driving a Mercedes Benz.

    It is assumed that the Dewanis would have arrived at the Cape Grace in the same Mercedes Benz.

    The CCTV footage of the day, as reported by the Mail on Sunday, does not show this.

    Did the Mail on Sunday get confused about the model of car that they reportedly saw on the CCTV footage?

    Or did they miss the date of the footage and report the wrong day as their arrival in the Sharan?

    If so, the paper should train their journalists in the basics of calendar reading and a season of Top Gear should become mandatory viewing for vehicle-illiterate reporters.

    Like

  152. More Questions on Mercedes Statement vis a vis the Cab System at Cape Airport:

    I don’t understand why Shrien doesnt just answer all this in one go because all these questions would just clear him of public suspicion.

    The company that Tongo used to work for is a highly reputable and exciting tour company that does fantastic tours around the city of cape town and has excellent reviews from clientele.

    (i’ve omitted the company name because they are an excellent company and shouldnt associated with tongo any further)

    These are the questions –
    -1- If Tongo arrived in a Mercedes, why was his owner so quick to say that Zola was not working the day of the murder, and also why did the owner not make any statement about Tongo being on duty when he initially picked up the Dewanis?

    2 – Was Tongo on duty or not when he picked them up?

    – 3 -If Tongo arrived in a Mercedes, why did Shrien not report any surprise that on the 13th he arrived in the much cheaper VW Sharan, something which they would not have expected?

    -4- Is the transfer from the Cape Grace that much more expensive than the Mercedes Tongo picked them up in?
    It might well be. But its a thought.

    -5 If he was on duty, is it normal for a VIP chaffeur companies to park at the airport and hustle for fares?
    I have never seen random mercedes benzes at the Cape international airport hustling for fares, let alone three!
    Normally to hire a VIP car you go to a kiosk serving that VIP company.

    Can Capetonians confirm or dispute this for me?

    Only regular cheaper cabs hustle openly, which explains why Dewani approached Tongo as he had originally said – “he wanted a cheaper fare”

    Thus far Dewani’s statements have Cape Town wrong – from weather to cab systems to beaches suitable for millionaires to walk their brides….

    Those who are supporting him understandably, are also buying the ‘south africa’ is corrupt and the ‘politicians have paid off the cabbie’ myth.

    Such ignorance would explain why someone who be mistaken to believe they could commit murder here and get away with it…

    the level of ignorance about south africa is not surprising, but it does explain a lot in terms of the lack of questioning from loyal supporters.

    Like

  153. Good morning ….

    Now I am amused @ the videos & pics that the family have submitted.. Don’t get me wrong.. As much as it is sweet to see the couple happy & in love DOES not prove that a person is incapable of murder..??
    Furthermore, in the beginning when I started posting on MH , I did mention that it was rather strange that immediately after the Murder ONLY “HAPPY COUPLE” pics made it to the media.. Wherever you looked it was BOOM.. in your face!!.. And I couldn’t help BUT wonder WHY???.. Was it to show the world or MISLEAD them that ..LOOK.. Here is a HAPPY PERFECT COUPLE.. ??
    In my opinion… the pics & video PROVE NOTHING…
    EG:- I can submit pics of my wedding day showing my hubby all over his “new bride”.. BUT that didn’t stop him committing adultery??… If you look @ the pics.. you see a man in love.. eyes only for his bride.. incapable of cheating.. NEED I SAY MORE???…………….

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  154. I didn’t know anything about this McCann case until UK people started pointing out similarities.

    Is there a book they are all reading out of??

    “The police don’t want a murder in Portugal and all the publicity about them not having paedophile laws here, so they’re blaming us,” and Gerry said “We are being absolutely stitched up.”

    This exact same wording was said by Dewani supporters just two weeks ago!

    This is disgusting. Has the UK become a haven for wealthy people who are suspected of doing their own loved ones in?

    Disgusting! And they accuse South Africa of corruption!!

    Like

  155. @Solly More on the Cape Grace story and journo reports.

    In one of the first reports just about 2 days after Anni’s body was found, the Cape Grace had said, when asked whether the Dewanis’ were staying there, “Mr Dewani was staying here but on Saturday afternoon he checked out.”. Can anyone shed some light on this statement?

    Holy smoke, it was reported last night on E news that Shrien made a call to his brother before Anni’s body was found and asked that they hire a private investigator to investigate the matter. A PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR, my a*ss man! If he had no faith in SA’s cops then he could have contacted The British Embassy but a private investigator?….Every time when they open their damn mouths a lump of sh*t falls out!

    Oh, please read his amazing views on Cape Town before he boarded the plane out of SA.

    http://www.iol.co.za/news/don-t-shun-sa-says-briton-1.837718

    November 18 2010 at 07:31am
    By Peter Fabricius and Zara Nicholson
    IOL hijack honeymoon couple

    .

    It was not yet confirmed whether the husband of the murdered British honeymoon tourist would be returning to South Africa to assist with the investigation, Western Cape police said.

    Related Stories

    * Cops quiz man on tourist murder
    * Suspect in hijack, murder charged
    * ‘They told me they wouldn’t hurt her’
    * Tourist killing: cops seek suspects

    Shrien Dewani, the honeymooning Briton whose wife Anni was murdered in Gugulethu at the weekend, has urged fellow British tourists not to shun the “amazing country” South Africa just because of what happened to them.

    Dewani told London’s Telegraph newspaper it would be “irrational” for people to miss out on what it had to offer just because of the high crime rate.

    “What has happened to us is tragic but you can’t punish the whole country for the actions of two individuals,” Dewani said.

    “That would be irrational. On the whole the people here have been overwhelmingly friendly and caring.

    “I think that any time you are away from your comfort zone you have to exercise caution. But I wouldn’t say ‘don’t come to South Africa’.”

    He said the couple had spent four days in the Kruger National Park. “We had a wonderful time there. We saw all the large wild game, stayed in some amazing places and met some really nice people,” he said. “I won’t forget how at one point an elephant was just two foot away from us in the game viewing vehicle. Then it started and everyone in the car jumped out of their skins. This is an amazing country.”

    He also paid tribute to his wife of two weeks, an engineer of Swedish-Ugandan descent.

    “She is amazing. I mean she was amazing,” he was quoted as saying. “She was so full of character. She had more friends than you could possibly imagine. She loved people and she loved life and she was always, always happy.”

    A local family friend of the Dewanis, Peter Dhaya, told the Cape Times the Dewanis were “in love” with South Africa.

    Dhaya is a friend of Shrien’s father, Prakash, and drove from King William’s Town to Cape Town to support the family.

    He said Anni’s body was flown to the UK about the same time the relatives flew home on Tuesday night.

    Dhaya said Anni’s father, Vinod Hindocha, was “devastated” and did not know how to deal with his daughter’s death.

    “Shrien has a very strong personality, he has remorse but he is trying his best and he’s been quite strong. It’s been very difficult for Anni’s dad – he is devastated,” Dhaya said.

    He had never met the couple and only met Shrien after the ordeal. Dhaya met Prakash Dewani last year while he was on holiday in South Africa.

    “He was so in love with the country, when he went back to England he couldn’t stop talking about what a beautiful country it is,” Dhaya said.

    Meanwhile, a 26-year-old Khayelitsha man is to appear in the Wynberg Regional Court today on charges of hijacking. The man was questioned by police on Tuesday and was formally charged yesterday.

    Police spokesman Captain Frederick van Wyk said the investigation was ongoing and police were still looking for one other suspect.

    The couple arrived in Cape Town on Friday and booked into the Cape Grace hotel. On Saturday evening they went for dinner in Somerset West before leaving to experience “township night life” in Gugulethu.

    The couple had apparently declined the tour operators offered by the hotel and arranged their own transport.

    At about 11pm on Saturday night two armed men approached the shuttle at an intersection in Gugulethu.

    Dewani told the Daily Mail two gunmen drove around with him and Anni for 20 minutes while he pleaded with them not to hurt her or separate them. They dumped Dewani in Khayelitsha while Anni’s body was found on Sunday morning in the abandoned vehicle.

    Van Wyk said the contents of the post-mortem report “will only be released once presented as evidence in a court”. – Cape Times

    Like

  156. http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/columnists/2010/12/21/the-accused-not-cele-s-monkey-remarks-are-on-trial

    The accused, not Cele’s monkey remarks, are on trial
    Dec 21, 2010 | HOME TRUTHS – Oupa Ngwenya | 6 comments
    THE animal kingdom finds itself dragged again into human skirmishes. This because of colourful SAPS General Bheki Cele’s remark: “A monkey came all the way from London to have his wife murdered here.”

    *
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    * The hope for SA lies with exemplary leaders with a vision

    The outrage to Cele’s remarks is conflated with South Africa’s inability to assume Shrien Dewani as being innocent until proven guilty and is less concerned with the dastardly deed.

    Not that no soul should leap to Shrien’s defence. Let it rather be the educated responsibility of a legal team chosen for that purpose in court.

    Outside court let no one be fooled that people are unmoved, speechless and without a view on the matter. Forget not how throngs, for and against President Jacob Zuma, held day and night vigils outside court during his running battles with the Scorpions.

    Hallelujahs choruses were screamed at cross purpose with the calls for conviction. Herbs were burnt in favour of Zuma and T-shirts, bearing former president Thabo Mbeki’s face, were tossed into street fires.

    In the tradition of how courts operate, learned opinion tells us cases are never decided on the strength of emotions, eloquent speeches, vociferous views and the gobbledygook that goes with them in street theatres.

    But that people talk, before and after trials, is a given.

    Even when the court acquitted Zuma on a rape charge and the Scorpions decided not to continue trying him on corruption charges, the court of public opinion did not cease talking and still remains divided to date.

    Those who do not remember those street theatres are nothing less than ostriches burying their heads in the sand in the hope that facts will disappear to compensate for their induced blindness.

    Likening people to ostriches does not suggest that they walk on their heads and think with the feet. That is a figure of speech depicting the odd and foolish things that humans sometime do to unwittingly mirror what pertains to the animal kingdom.

    It might be a tall order to expect a diplomat out of Cele but it cannot be put past him that he is inclined to combative figures of speech.

    On the murder of Annie Dewani I also have a view. This country and the best of minds, whose lives were laid to waste in defence of oppressors and their surviving collaborating beneficiaries, is simply no land to be deemed a destination of choice for murder of a foreigner or citizen.

    For a holidaying couple to end with one in a body bag is cause for Cele’s outrage admittedly not befitting diplomatic demeanor expected of his office.

    Does that admission grant the UK reason enough to decline SA’s case for extradition?

    Remotely nowhere near to being a relative to the Queen of England, my independent interest in the English language and associated figures of speech, to add African verve, does not require deference of Her Majesty’s nods or disagreeable head shakes to determine the rightness or wrongness that manifest on this beloved land.

    Her Majesty would be the first to concede that had it not been for African thinkers, writers and speakers of her language, English would not have become richer for the global community adopting it as a lingua franca.

    Those taking issue with Cele’s monkey remark might be in denial of the silent guilty conscience that human beings can sometimes prove to be no better than the animals they summarily dismiss to be lower than themselves for lack of culture.

    The murderer/murderers of Anni Dewani are on trial, not Cele’s remarks.

    Like

  157. An article claiming Dewani arrived on 6 Nov has been pulled from the newssite it appeared on.
    I can’t remember the journalists name but I will not be taking the Burger seriously anymore, like I dont take IOL seriously on this case.

    Like

  158. @Allesklar

    I posted my response to that article seconds ago. In the event of it being deleted, here it is :

    @Joebroon

    OOOOOOhhhhhhhhhhh dear! An ex-pat I assume. I am by all accounts not the most patriotic of South Africans but lately I’ve been reading total sh*t written by people like you and am sick to death of it. Ex-pats are such blatant liars…going as far as saying “Before the ANC government there were no slums like Guguletu and Kayalitsha!”. What bullshit, those areas have been there for many decades! Please God, deny people like you and your ilk visas to SA. Dewani will get a fair trial, of that I am certain. If he wants to return with clutching his Barbie doll & diapers (I bet he’s changing them frequently) and try to plead insanity, that’s fine with me as well.

    Here is what Shrien Dewani had to say before he left Cape Town shortly after Anni’s body was found… He does not share your sentiments at all, he loved Cape Town !

    http://www.iol.co.za/news/don-t-shun-sa-says-briton-1.837718

    Like

  159. Here’s a good article on Dewani coverage in S.A.

    I’d add Brit media to it too. Media have been unreliable from the beginning in this case.
    The way they would report off each other without checking facts and sources.
    Atrocious. As public, the media is all we have to go on to formulate views, they’ve chosen sensation over ethics in many cases

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/article825420.ece/The-Big-Read–The-Dewani-feeding-frenzyhttp://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/article825420.ece/The-Big-Read–The-Dewani-feeding-frenzy

    Like

  160. @Solly
    I’d add Brit media to it too. Media have been unreliable from the beginning in this case.
    The way they would report off each other without checking facts and sources.
    Atrocious. As public, the media is all we have to go on to formulate views, they’ve chosen sensation over ethics in many cases.

    ~~~~~~~
    As I have stated more than once before, the media, in my view, is in contempt of court. This matter is subjudice! The police are not going to (hopefully) confirm or deny these reports. The majority of people I have spoken to have not based their views on the media reports but on statements released by Dewani or his PR Max.

    Like

  161. I just hope for Anni’s sake that Mr. Gundelfinger ( the divorce laywer) will come foreward and share all information with the investigators in this case.

    Dewani will not come to South Africa without a huge fight. Dewani’s laywer’s and Max C will fight with whatever they can and only because they are bussy “milking the golden cow” or ‘let’s say Dewani’s bank balance’. This is what they do best, right??? The milking of Dewani’s finances is also a good punishment for what he has done.

    If he was in South Africa before the murder he had to have duel citisenship from another country? Maybe he took out huge insurances on Anni’s life in another country like India? (This country would be a low-profile risk)????

    Like

  162. Lorna- Mr. Gundelfinger ( the divorce laywer) CANNOT share any information he has with the investigators because of the rules regarding client confidentiality. If he broke those rules he would end up in court as well as being struck off from the SA Bar.

    Like

  163. Dewani extradition papers submitted
    December 22 2010 at 08:29pm

    ——————————————————————————–

    …Reuters

    The National Prosecuting Authority has submitted papers for the extradition of British murder-accused Shrien Dewani to the SA Justice Department. Photo: Reuters

    The National Prosecuting Authority has submitted papers for the extradition of British murder-accused Shrien Dewani to the SA Justice Department, SABC news reported on Wednesday.

    “The papers that we submitted to the Department of Justice as the central authority, we believe are in order and have all the information that will persuade the court in a subsequent hearing to grant us the extradition,” NPA spokesman Mthunzi Mhaga told the news station.

    “We are confident that in a reasonable time, we will have him here as an accused.”

    The Justice department is the central authority which deals with extradition. It facilitates the process through diplomatic channels with the International Relations and Cooperation Department.

    Shrien Dewani is accused of murdering his wife Anni in a staged hijacking in South Africa.

    Anni Dewani was killed on November 13 in Gugulethu, Cape Town.

    The “hijackers” – who have been arrested and are to appear in court again in February – released her husband and their driver unharmed, but shot her, and did not steal the car.

    The driver of the vehicle the couple were travelling in at the time of the alleged fake hijacking entered a plea agreement with the State and fingered Dewani as the mastermind in the killing.

    Dewani was released on 250,000 pounds bail in Britain after his arrest this month. He is set to appear in court again in January. –

    Sapa

    Like

  164. So after another two weeks, it is becoming apparent that there IS another side to this story-one that the S Africans did not want getting out. I would like the answer to one simple question here.

    If this character, Cele is to be believed, then:

    1) Shrien was the mastermind who came all the way to SA to commit his crime
    2) Tongo was a medium merely being used by Shrien
    3) Tongo agreed to jeapordise his whole life, reputation, career to arrange this hit (for a total stranger, mind you…)
    4) Tongo agreed for his own vehicle to be used for this crime – knowing well it would be impounded by the copys
    5) Tongo agreed to lose an entire vehicle (worth thousands!) …. all for 90 British pounds

    I have one piece of advice for you South Africans-you have an opportunity to use Anni’s demise to address your countries insecurity.

    Please set aside this African pride of yours – your tourism , as you were used to it, is finished but you have a chance to rebuild your tarnished reputation. Right now, your atrocious Police Head is urinating on your filthy backyard when his job was to clean it up.

    I still maintain- this is a FRAME JOB and Shrien will not get a fair trial in that nation.

    Like

  165. My main fear for Shrien if he is extradited to SA is what might “happen” to him whilst being held in police custody/prison awaiting trial:

    http://allafrica.com/stories/201010010253.html

    I am also discomforted to think that anybody being put on trial for their life is dependent on the opinion of a single judge rather than a jury drawn at random from the community. I believe it is always much more difficult to persuade a group of (12?) jurors to come to a concerted conclusion as to guilt unless a strong and compelling case is presented to them.

    As Andrew said, this case will be high in the attentions of the World’s media as an indication of the progress of justice and safety for all visitors to SA that a single mistake may well cost the country very dear.
    I suspect that much damage has already been done. I wonder what cost a risk management analyst would place on Cele’s remarks? I’d start at 100 million SAR, but could be persuaded higher.

    Like

    • Martin

      It is a hard one because even the President of this nation was an accused rapist with many questions remaining unresolved on his conduct.

      But assuming Zuma has learnt some lessons and now thnks with his head and not genitals, one of the best things he can do as leader is to step in and sack Cele altogether and take personal control over the insecurity out there.

      Like

    • Paradoxically as it might seem, given the wide publicity this case has received, Shrien may stand a better chance of receiving a fair trial by a single judge weighing up the evidence presented before him and the arguments made to him by prosecuting and defence councils than he would if his fate was to be decided by a jury which already has doubts over his role in the affair from the press reports they have read ?

      Like

  166. Speculation, speculation!
    No-one outside of the investigation knows exactly the volume & content of evidence that the SA authorities have., and remember, it’s still ongoing.
    The ‘media’ are no different than we the ‘public’, who in light of having little insight to what’s really going on behind closed doors, can only but speculate.
    Of course, this is human nature, to make sense of what we are not witness to.
    Only ? individuals were witness to the events that culminated in a perverted tradegy, only ? remain.
    But as in all crime, most criminal/s underestimate the trail of evidence they leave behind. Be assured, a murder investigation requires every angle to be scrutinized.
    I have more faith in a SA court to settle this ‘case’ than the judgement of public opinion. {no offence to people’s right of opinion}
    All who were involved/present on that tragic day need to ‘stand up and be counted’.
    No-one should be allowed to walk away from such an event without bearing witness to a court, whether said individual/s are charged or not.

    Like

  167. http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/dewani-extradition-papers-submitted-1.1004332

    Dewani extradition papers submitted

    December 22 2010 at 08:29pm
    IOL pic dec14 shrien dewani court

    Reuters

    The National Prosecuting Authority has submitted papers for the extradition of British murder-accused Shrien Dewani to the SA Justice Department. Photo: Reuters

    The National Prosecuting Authority has submitted papers for the extradition of British murder-accused Shrien Dewani to the SA Justice Department, SABC news reported on Wednesday.

    “The papers that we submitted to the Department of Justice as the central authority, we believe are in order and have all the information that will persuade the court in a subsequent hearing to grant us the extradition,” NPA spokesman Mthunzi Mhaga told the news station.

    “We are confident that in a reasonable time, we will have him here as an accused.”

    The Justice department is the central authority which deals with extradition. It facilitates the process through diplomatic channels with the International Relations and Cooperation Department.

    Shrien Dewani is accused of murdering his wife Anni in a staged hijacking in South Africa.

    Anni Dewani was killed on November 13 in Gugulethu, Cape Town.

    The “hijackers” – who have been arrested and are to appear in court again in February – released her husband and their driver unharmed, but shot her, and did not steal the car.

    The driver of the vehicle the couple were travelling in at the time of the alleged fake hijacking entered a plea agreement with the State and fingered Dewani as the mastermind in the killing.

    Dewani was released on 250,000 pounds bail in Britain after his arrest this month. He is set to appear in court again in January. –

    Sapa

    Like

  168. Wondered what he was doing at Manenberg Police Station where the ID Parade took place…

    Having dealt with him in the past, I wish I could publish how I feel about him but he’d sue me.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/12/20/honeymoon-widower-shrien-dewani-may-use-south-african-police-bungles-to-avoid-extradition-115875-22795111/

    Now William Booth, one of South Africa’s top lawyers, says Mr Dewani’s team should investigate two cases where ­defendants were cleared after evidence was allegedly tampered with by police.

    He said: “It’s been established in South Africa that there’s manipulation of evidence – that goes to the heart of the investigation and the prosecution.”

    Read more: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/12/20/honeymoon-widower-shrien-dewani-may-use-south-african-police-bungles-to-avoid-extradition-115875-22795111/#ixzz18uvVouVG
    Go Camping for 95p! Vouchers collectable in the Daily and Sunday Mirror until 11th August . Click here for more information

    Like

  169. This is shocking!

    http://www.mg.co.za/article/2010-12-22-wedding-booked-as-a-convention

    Wedding booked as a ‘convention’
    GLYNNIS UNDERHILL | CAPE TOWN, SOUTH AFRICA – Dec 23 2010 06:00
    comments 0 comments | Post your comment
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    Shrien Dewani booked his lavish wedding to his murdered wife Anni as a three-day convention at a five-star Indian hotel through his family company PSP Healthcare, the Mail & Guardian was told this week.

    A staff member at the luxury Rena-issance Hotel and Convention Centre in Mumbai confirmed a discount was given on the “convention” in October because of the good business it received from PSP Healthcare.

    The father of the bride, Vinod Hindocha, told the M&G that he paid “two-thirds” of the wedding costs. “I was happy to pay my share, which I handed to Shrien,” Hindocha said.

    “According to Hindu tradition, the reception is paid by the groom and the other two days are on me. Shrien handled the negotiations and told me what my share was.”

    The British press has estimated that the wedding, attended by more than 300 guests, cost £200 000.

    Ernest Lai King, the head of Deneys Reitz Tax, said that if the expense was accounted for in PSP, its description as a “convention” cost would be inaccurate, and British tax authorities could take a dim view of it if PSP tried to claim the expense — unless it was treated as a fringe benefit or remuneration to PSP director Shrien Dewani.

    “Of course, that remuneration would then be fully taxable in Shri-en’s hands. The two-thirds subsidy [by Hindocha] could be expected to be accounted for in PSP if the expense was put through, in which case only the net one-third of the remuneration cost could be claimed by PSP,” said Lai King, who is a leading tax specialist in South Africa.

    He said that if it was customary and obligatory, Hindocha’s subsidy should not be regarded as a donation.

    Lai King said that a disclosure in the company’s books of the wedding as a “convention” cost might also be a corporate governance issue of interest to PSP’s shareholders.

    CONTINUES BELOW

    Shrien Dewani, his brother Preyen and Wayne Shermon are the directors of PSP, which owns nine nursing homes and old-age care villages in the United Kingdom. PSP is reported to be in financial trouble, but the Dewani family has denied this.

    Last weekend the Dewani family released a videotape of the couple dancing at their wedding in a bid to counter claims that he is a suspect in her murder. The footage shows the couple singing to their chosen Hindu song, Pehla Nasha (First Love).

    The traditional wedding was not formally registered and a formal marriage ceremony is said to have been planned in the United Kingdom next year.

    At the time of going to press, the M&G was still awaiting comment from the London public relations firm, Max Clifford, which Dewani has hired to deal with media queries.

    Like

    • Are you a tax lawyer too, now Alexis? You started off pretty balanced, but now are showing a lot of bias here with what you present. What are you shocked about? You don’t even know if they put this through their books as a fringe benefit or not.

      How is it relevant to his case how their accountant treats it when it comes to lodging tax returns. Thousands of wealthy people use their private jet for leisure and pay the full tax on it.

      Stick to the case, the evidence – both sides!

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  170. @ANDREW

    – You’re working on stereoptypes.
    The SA Tourism industry has not suffered because of Dewani. Because most tourists know that they must NOT go into townships at NIGHT.
    So most tourists are pretty much going on with their tours of cape town.
    What has been cancelled are tours to Gugulethu.

    Israel has had a president accused of rape.
    Also the guy was not president at the time. Fortunately for Dewani, just like the president – the justice system in south africa insisted that this future president go and answer for the suspicions in court and he was acquitted of all charges.

    The comments you have made display a lack of logic or wilful ignorance and prejudice.
    You’re buying into the Third World stereotypes.

    ON JURY –

    South Africa has the exact same legal system as the British as they colonised us for two hundred years.
    this is good news for Dewani’s defence because it’ll be just like defending Dewani at home.

    Like

    • Solly-attitudes like yours are what your pollies maintain – which is why that country is a rat hole and haven for crooks and criminals whose numbers will only grow unless those clowns you vote for do something about it. If you think your tourism is in a sterling state, your head must be in the sand.

      I come from the Third World and know how things work – just when you think things cant get worse, they always do. There is no stereo typing here – it is cold fact.

      Why dont you just try to answer the questions I posed earlier and see what you come up with. Remember – it is innocent till proven guilty and this Cele idiot you have as your police boss only has 2 or 3 criminals (that he presumably tortured) to stack up his story.

      Why would Tongo give up his car worth (i dont know) 5000 pounds say for 95 pounds? What a bad deal –

      or was it that the 95 pounds was actually payment for cab charges.

      If you are so proud of your legal system, just look up your record – it is published data which I put up some time ago. It is an embarassment. And by defending such an undefendable position, so are you…

      Like

  171. @Andrew
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Solly-attitudes like yours are what your pollies maintain – which is why that country is a rat hole and haven for crooks and criminals whose numbers will only grow unless those clowns you vote for do something about it. If you think your tourism is in a sterling state, your head must be in the sand.

    I come from the Third World and know how things work – just when you think things cant get worse, they always do. There is no stereo typing here – it is cold fact.

    Why dont you just try to answer the questions I posed earlier and see what you come up with. Remember – it is innocent till proven guilty and this Cele idiot you have as your police boss only has 2 or 3 criminals (that he presumably tortured) to stack up his story.

    Why would Tongo give up his car worth (i dont know) 5000 pounds say for 95 pounds? What a bad deal –
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    THE CAR WAS STOLEN OR DID YOU MISS THAT PART, YOU IDIOT!

    YOU ARE THE PERSON WHO KNOWS SHRIEN WELL, IN FACT YOU SAID VERY WELL. WONDERED WHEN YOU’D SHOW YOUR FACE BACK HERE.

    DON’T INSULT SOLLY, CELE OR SOUTH AFRICA BEFORE YOU REALLY GET TO KNOW SHRIEN. SHAME ON YOU!!!

    Like

  172. @Andrew

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Are you a tax lawyer too, now Alexis? You started off pretty balanced, but now are showing a lot of bias here with what you present. What are you shocked about? You don’t even know if they put this through their books as a fringe benefit or not.

    How is it relevant to his case how their accountant treats it when it comes to lodging tax returns. Thousands of wealthy people use their private jet for leisure and pay the full tax on it.

    Stick to the case, the evidence – both sides!

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    The problem is you are only considering Shrien’s “evidence” and he has none! He is such a damn liar and a self proclaimed crook!
    Why did you not bother to touch on the ” Lodge evidence” or the “stolen car evidence”?
    Two days before Christmas and you continue to hurl insults at us – let me guess, you are Hindu or quite possibly Shrien himself.
    Stock up on the Barbie dolls, diapers and dummies before the last minute Christmas rush!

    Like

  173. @ ANDREW

    Let’s assume Tongo is lying about Shrien and he masterminded the robbery – which is la plausible explanation.
    The question you ask still remains unresolved – why lose your car for a few trinkets (phones, eetc).
    We can only assume that Tongo never intended to have Anni killed in the car and always thought he would get it back.

    So your question is neither here nor there. Tongo lost his car whichever you look at it, the job whatever iits intention (robbery or a hit), was bungled by the two who tried to rape anni and killed her accidentally.

    Just because you are from the Third World does not mean you dont hold stereotypes about it, in fact, you’re more likely to if you’re of a certain class position.

    @ALEXIS
    Thanks!

    Like

    • @Andrew

      I won’t waste any more time responding to your comments until YOU consider the real evidence.

      As a close friend of Shrien I think you are unable to do that. Over and out.

      Like

  174. @Alexis

    Internet rumour says that the rent boy never sold his story to the press but that he really did go to the poilice.
    I wonder.
    And that there is cctv footage of him and dewani in a particular hotel.

    I dont think the rent boy would sell his story to the press for reasons I stated in a previous post.
    That its just bad for business if a professional escort blabs to public for a quick buck.

    Anyway, The Sun couldnt pay him much, especially since his name is known and his face is known.

    I dont think the escort would have anything to gain by making claims about being hired.

    Unless he is so doooowwwnnn and out and so desperate to get a quick buck by making up stories abobut a random stranger.
    And I doubt coz the sex industry is always booming

    Like

  175. @Solly

    I’m lost…which comment were you referring to?

    Like

  176. The telegraph only gives half the story!!!!

    ‘Shanaaz had previously been shot five times in November in an attack on their car at a stop street, according to police, but survived. No one has yet been charged for that shooting’.

    http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/kwazulu-natal/man-gets-life-for-wife-hijack-1.1004416

    Like

  177. @Andrew 

    Mindful of your close association with Shrien I kindly request your assistance in clarifying a few points

    During last weekends coordinated charm offensive in the UK media by the pro-Shrien camp it was evident that heavy emphasis was placed on Shrien’s victimhood. As a ‘victim’ of ‘such a heinous’ crime, I am baffled by the lack of charges brought by the SA authorities against the (alleged) perpetrators on Shrien’s behalf. After all Shrien was a victim as well, right? On this particular point shouldn’t Shrien & his supporters be seeking justice for him as well as Anni instead of fighting a quasi war in the media to win over a sceptical public? This in itself will surely convince more people of his innocence than reports of Shrien sleeping with a Barbie doll.

    Also, do you accept that the SA police have done a sterling job in tracking down four criminals (one of whom has already been convicted) in connection with this crime? Bear in mind that in a country of 50 murders daily the (majority of) families of the victims of crime will only get a tiny fraction of the resources that has been afforded to get justice for Anni, and if he wants it for Shrien too?

    Like

  178. Hi there, I have been reading this forum with interest and thought that I would share my thoughts with all of you.
    Having lived in Kenya all my life I am under no illusions that Kenya is a ‘safe’ country, and was sent to a boarding school in England at a young age by my parents so that I wouldnt be tempted to go out at night and get into a difficult situation – ie raped or shot dead. Many of my friends refused to come to Kenya because of its high crime rate, and when their families called up my parents to ask them, my parents made them aware that should they come and stay they wouldnt be allowed out at night, and that there were a lot of risks and it was a dangerous country.

    Whilst I understand that people should be patriotic towards their country, facts are facts and Kenya and South Africa are not safe countries and the chances of them ever being safe are next to nothing. These countries are ruled by corruption of the highest order and ANYTHING can be staged to protect the countries best interests. Just yesterday I saw a bunch of tourists roaming around on the streets in the day and at night and thought to myself that these people were incredibly daft and were asking for trouble. So i think that it is unfair to assume that Shrien and Anni ‘knew’ that Gughuletu was an unsafe area. Many of my friends wouldnt have a clue, as a vast majority of programmes shown on Africa/Kenya are about people staying in townships and doing charity work, where nothing happens to them. If Jamie Oliver was singing its praises then why would they think that it was an unsafe area? Tourists are tourists, and if i were to go to to Cambodia for example, as a tourist, I wouldnt have a clue about which places were safe or unsafe, so it is wrong to assume that these people knew it was unsafe. I have been guilty of trusting cab drivers blindly in most of the countries that I have visited, and I have also picked up cabs from the airport directly rather than using the hotels shuttle. To me that is normal. I did exercise caution in South Africa (which is a beautiful country btw) ONLY because I am from Kenya and am fully aware of the dangers. As citizens of these countries you get used to it, but we must remember that tourists dont possess the knowledge of the dangers that we do.

    As for the driver, the day this whole thing happened, I knew at once that the driver was involved. Its always the case, even in Kenya. I dont have a shred of doubt that the driver has been coerced into stating that Shrien Dewani was behind this and it was a planned ‘hit’. I am fully aware of the prison systems in most african countries and the treatment of prisoners too. It is a well known fact that they are tortured and some are forced into making confessions, with threats to their families, and threats of death. Another thing that makes me highly suspicious is the fact that the fourth guy who is under ‘witness protection’ will get away scott-free if he implicates Dewani. I mean come on, he is equally to blame as Tongo yet is told that if he confesses that Dewani played a part in it, he will be let off free, (so which sane human being wouldnt implicate Dewani to get off free? its human nature) whereas Tongo still has to serve a lengthy sentence. You call that justice???

    To be honest, if i was in Dewani’s position I would REFUSE to be extradited, even if i was innocent because there isnt a chance in hell that he is going to get a fair trial. As for the South African newspapers, they just seem to be publishing whatever they want without checking their facts or sources. It is absolutely ridiculous and I have stopped reading those articles and instead only read the British ones. In Kenya some newspapers are run by the government and things are censored. The day before something major was about to be published about one of the presidents, the building which housed that particular newspapers printing press was burned to the ground. There is just too much corruption in Africa, and sadly I dont think that is something that will ever change.

    If Shrien had lived in Africa all his life, I would suspect him without a doubt. However, it takes someone who has lived in africa and who knows what it is all about to commit a crime that he has been accused of comitting, in such a short amount of time. I personally feel that he isnt guilty and he is being framed. I also know that African countries are very proud, and now they have created all this fuss, they wouldnt think twice about fabricating evidence to maintain that pride and prove him guilty.

    As for being let off without a scratch, I am sure that it was a hijacking and that sadly all they wanted to do was assault anni, and they would have dropped her off somewhere else at a later time, I dont think that they did intend to kill her. Tongo must have told them that they were tourists and would probably complain to the police (never thinking he would ever be involved) but that they would soon return to their home country. I could be wrong, but this is what I personally think.

    Like

  179. @shelly
    You are suggesting that this was a hijacking….and all they wanted to do was to assault Anni? They left the car behind with Anni ‘s body in it.They would have “dropped” her off and taken the car and stripped it or burnt it! Explain the smses between Tongo and Dewani as well as the sms from Dewani explaining where he had left the money (under the front seat).

    Like

  180. @ Alexis … They wanted to rob and assault Anni. Im sorry but most of these criminals are on drugs and consume a substance known as Changaa in Kenya atleast,which comprises of 60 – 80% alcohol, they arent in their senses most of the time. My dad has been held at gunpoint twice by a bunch of armed robbers, in one instance he suspects it was corrupt police members as they punched him, and the way in which it was done shattered and broke his titanium glasses and didnt leave a bruise (professional training). All they wanted was his money and watch and they left the car with him. My aunt was hijacked and they told her to remain in the car but she turned her back and walked off and she said id rather you shoot me then rape me. Luckily they let her go and drove off (and this was in broad daylight, as was my dads). Ive never heard of cars being burned to be honest. I have heard of cases in Kenya where people are just left shot in their car, ive never heard of bodies being dumped. People who are that out of their senses couldnt care less about cleaning up their mess or evidence, and on a saturday night in a township in south africa im sure its exactly the same. They just thought they would never get caught, as most of these cases go unresolved in south africa as has been mentioned previously by others. As for these sms’s have you seen them? Do you know the content of them? These have been released by the SA media (dont believe a word they say tbh) who always seem to get it wrong. If he had left the money in the car why would he be seen handing him more money three days later? For all we know he was probably sms-ing him to ask him where he was etc. If i had my cabdrivers number I would probably text rather than call from my roaming as it is cheaper. I wouldnt trust the police in south africa at all, and find it humourous that they can even be compared to the british police system at all. There is no comparison. Half the time the police officers are involved themselves and do anything for a bribe.

    Like

    • @Shelly
      So you’re in Kenya are you? Millions of South Africans would tell you if they had the chance/opportunity, that things are done a little differently here.
      The deal about the money was R15k and another R1K after the job had been completed…..How could you have missed that if you’ve been following this blog?
      Also strange that you live in Kenya yet you know more about the British Police than we do.
      I received a blank sms from a Kenyan number today and I know no-one in Kenya – strange but true.
      There can be no doubt that Dewani has to return to answer the unanswered questions.
      He fed us bullshit about what happened and it’s costing the taxpayers like myself millions to get to the bottom of this. He’s left a bad impression in our minds….not seated next to his tearful wife en route here, dodgy deals, promises to return, didn’t pitch for the ID parade…..etc…. He only has himself to blame. See the previous thread.

      Like

  181. Also in answer to your question about them dropping her off – well thats what i meant, they would have assaulted her and dropped her off somewhere, she musthave put up a fight and they shot her accidently (in their senseless state) and then fled because they couldnt be bothered to cover up their mess. I understand you wanting to protect your country, but I’m just calling a spade a spade, and whilst I love my country passionately, I am not blind to its faults and had this happened in Kenya, i would automatically assume that he was being set up.

    Like

    • @Shelly
      Would you prefer the crude and rather blunt description? They would have dumped her body! For the record, I am one of the least patriotic people in SA and have often been told to board a plane and leave. I simply cannot handle bullshit day in and day out from Dewani who is a self confessed crook. He is wasting my p.h.u.c.k.i.n.g money!

      Like

  182. @Alexis, as i stated previously i attended a boarding school in England and have been studying there for nearly eleven years now. I come home every three months though when I get a break and for a good four months in the summer. If you are going by the south african news about the money then no I havent been reading those articles. FYI he was seated next to her on the way from MUMBAI to ENGLAND, not on their way to South Africa. I have many friends in south africa, and recently met a lovely man who had lived there but had to move to England because of the crime, and even he said it was seriously bad and told me the ins and outs about it, and it is similar to Kenya in many ways. He said corruption plays a big part, even in the police force, and they do nothing to help the white farmers. Ofcourse if you go by what the news in SA says then ofcourse you would think he was guilty and had a lot to answer for. I for one take the news in Kenya with a pinch of salt. When my dad was held at gunpoint he was incoherent and said that he felt his life flash before him and was extremely shaken up, and he is someone who has lived here all his life. Now imagine a tourist put in that position with no previous exposure to this, this would make them an absolute mess, and its is only natural due to stress that there would be inconsistencies in his story. I mean her own father said he didnt have the presence of mind to listen to what Dewani was saying. Until you’ve been in that position yourself I dont think you would understand. At the end of the day, he may have done it and I may be completely wrong, but I personally dont feel that he has.

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  183. oops i meant he wasnt seated next to her on the way from Mumbai to London but he was on the way to south africa.

    Like

  184. @Shelly…..this is getting more interesting by the minute…. Were you on that plane to see that?
    It’s 12:54am so I’m heading home now.

    Like

  185. Well if you are one of the least patriotic people then you would agree about the corruption, and how the cops torture prisoners and get confessions out of them. I guess we will have to agree to disagree but I highly doubt that the legal system in South Africa is without corruption, I can lay my life on it. In africa you can throw money at anything and get anything to happen the way you want it too if you are in a powerful position. That is a fact. Im sure Dewani’s South African lawyer probably quit because he was probably being threatened by higher ups in SA. It has nothing to do with money, because clearly if he could hire Max Clifford who i am sure charges a lot more than his SA lawyer, that wouldnt have been a problem. It all comes down to corruption and false pride. They were silly for letting him board a flight in the first place to leave when he was a key witness, and that just shows how incapable they are of following standard procedures. Blame your police force.

    Like

    • Shelly – I too am originally from Kenya and also understand SA very well. I understand exactly what you are saying. I would not bother with Alexis frankly because she is convinced that Shrien is guilty and all she has relied upon is newspaper articles and her own resentment towards life, which is becoming more an dmore apparent as she writes with more vengeance and passion. If you read all her comments they reflect antagonism towards just about everything- SA system, SA lawyers, SA government.. and Shrien. Again – all this based on newspaper articles.

      What people fail to understand is the background to this person on one side; and the capabailities of a cornered government on the other. I have the benefit here of knowing capabilities of both sides here – lets just say intricately.

      We recently discovered of the frantic efforts of Shrien to get the cops, squad teams, helicopters and private detectives deployed to help him ou that night into the morning. We hear abour the real bewilderment of a foreigner against the indifferent wait and see attiude of the copys. NONE of this was disclosed by the SA’s, who showed selective video clips and remarks to reflect a different picture. The fact is that Tongo actually changed his story after he met with the cops.

      Alexis asks whether YOU were on the plane – like the Mighty Self Appointed Judge – yet she cannot ask herself where SHE WAS when ANY of this happened? Probably in her dark hole drinking black coffee to contain her nerves and paranoia of being sued by any one and every one.

      The truth – and I mean the truth whicher way it really happened – can only come out if all parties act with reason and aim to find true justice – not orchestrated justice and the SA side has shown, through its direct and public threats towards Shrien (and he has received many other serious threats against his life) that once he lands there, this government will do all in its power to say it was right and he was wrong.

      As you so rightly identified, there is too much pride at stake here for them to give up and this pride that Alexis and other ignore had elevated to the levels where a suspect is being hidden away by the government and has been openly granted immunity from prosecution if he speaks against Shrien.

      What country would do THAT? A poor girl died!!! and this guy who was clearly complicit gets away scott free for reciting a rehearsed speech!

      Eveything about this so smells…and the stench emanates from the SA corner unfortunately.

      Shrien had nothing to gain from any of this and everyone seems to ignore this…

      Like

  186. @Alexis, it is indeed getting interesting lol! No but if you did follow british newspapers it was in an article on one of them. Funny how that air hostess source suddenly seems to have disappeared now, and Hindocha himself says that he never told the press that he was told this. Another misquoted source by the SA press. I personally think that if they had a single decent shred of evidence against him he would not have been granted bail by the British courts. Whether you or I like it or not, the british system is much more advanced than the african systems we have, and that is a fact.

    Like

    • That’s very naive

      Shrien’s bail conditions are stringent. £250,000 cash, electronic tag, daily reporting to police station, curfew, residential restrictions, passport forfeiture & restrictions on planning international travel.

      And why are you brown-nosing British police? Did you see their barbaric (& illegal) actions during the student demos last week? What about the cold-blooded murder of an innocent newspaper vendor? Their killing of an innocent man at Vauxhall underground station?

      Like

      • Blunose – I would rather front up as a mass murderer and face the British cops, than a mere shoplifter in the hands of your South African ones. The worst form of (very infrequent) barbarism in Britain does not compare to the capabilities of your guys out there (happening not infrequently, but virtually daily out there).

        I agree that th British guys are not saints but I also think you are being naive about the state of SA.

        Like

  187. @Andrew

    I completely 100% agree with you…
    You have to call a spade a spade, and it is all extremely fishy. We are talking about a country where its own president was accused of rape and got off scott free. This is nothing but damage limitation. Like Shrien, I am of indian origin and my sister got married two years a go to a guy she had been seeing for twelve months. He proposed to her in Paris as well in a similar manner and is clearly in love wtih her, all this crap about arranged marriage shocks me too. I dont think anyone in their right mind would go and get their brides bumped off after two weeks of being together. What people dont understand is that in Indian culture the man is NEVER pressured to get married, so he could easily have stayed single for the rest of his life if that is what he wanted to do (if he was gay). Half these claims that are coming out of SA are preposterous and illogical.

    I am so certain that he is being set up, and yes if i were him i would stay the hell away from south africa because I would fear for his life too if he went back. Being from Kenya yourself im sure you know what i am talking about, and people who say South Africa is any different are clearly deluded. If not its worse than Kenya in terms of crime, we probably come second or third after nigeria.

    Clearly there is no sense of justice if that one guy who had a hand in it is getting away scott-free by implicating Shrien. I mean if i was in his position i would too, he has probably been threatened with god knows what. African police are brutal and dont think twice about how inhumane their actions are, and i am not stereotyping, it is the absolute truth. They think they are above the law and will do as they please, they walk around wtih an air of arrogance. It doesnt surprise me one bit that they didnt keep in touch with him. I just hope and pray that the British courts see this and dont agree to the extradition.

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  188. @bluenose what the british police did is NOTHING in comparison to what our african police force does, they themselves rape women, torture people and half the time are involved in all these kililngs, so if i brown nose them that isnt being naive AT ALL. The people who held my dad up at gun point probably WERE the police, so unless you have lived in Africa and know the levels of corruption that we have, you wouldnt have a clue. There was a case ten years a go where a bunch of ten policeman raped a girl whilst she was driving home in the evening. I wouldnt stop for the police in this country when im driving for ANYTHING. They always want a bribe and sometimes even make you drop them off to police stations etc. It is ridiculous. The british police are GEMS in comparison.

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  189. @bluenose just one or two illegal murders by the British police is NOTHING in comparison to the police in Africa. None of these things are reported in these countries because ofcourse everything is censored. Sorry if sound blase about the killings in england, and whilst they were wrong, in Kenya this is a daily occurence. So if i was Shrien i would be extremely worried about his predicament should he return to Africa, and dont think that him refusing extradition is a sign of his guilt. Ignorant people who dont know a thing about Africa think its all safe and he will be ok if he goes there to claim his innocence. He certainly wont. He has been set up to save the tourist industry in SA. They have the idiot Cele, i mean who lets him speak??? This isnt the first time he has said something silly, last time it was about him wanting the Americans to lose in the first round. Thats what i mean about these africans in high positions, who have no education, thinking that they are above the law and saying whatever they want.

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  190. @blunose
    You are right that not everything that British police do is perfect. But when the Brazilian electrician was mistakenly identified as a terrorist and tragically shot, it was exhaystively reported and the police commissioner subsequently lost his job.
    The student demonstrations resulted in considerable damage to property and abuse of police. The death of a passing bystander was indeed very regrettable and nobody wished it to happen. The case continues in the public eye and the final outcome is not yet clear, but there has been much radio and press discussion as to how to better manage such demonstrations in future. I have heard few suggestions that would might improve matters except to employ even more police so as to completely dampen any violence immediately it arises. Peaceful demonstrations, however large, are completely legal in britain. Violent demonstrators must understand that both they and innocent onlookers are put at risk by their behaviour. I am certain that none of them will be required to pay as much for their education as Shelly’s parents no doubt have by sending her to England. If students behaved in such a way in Cape Town, what would be the police response?

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  191. @ Martin

    If this were to happen in Kenya for example, the police force would use tear gas, guns, battons anything they can get their hands on to control the mob. Demonstrations result in numerous deaths, and some police officers get killed too, because in kenya getting a gun is the easiest thing in the world and they can be bought for a mere 2 pounds, thanks to stupid arms dealers who exploit developing countries. Whenever their is a demonstration we sit at home, because they stone cars, set fire to things etc etc. The ‘violence’ shown in the London demo’s werent even a quarter as bad as the ones we have back here. We always have the universtiy students here rioting for some reason or the other, and on that day all the roads are clear, if you had any sense you wouldnt even think about venturing to town and most people choose to stay at home.

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  192. From what i remember when I went to South Africa, particularly Joburg, was that there was a curfew imposed on the town at 8pm (im talking about a good ten years a go) and we were told by the hotel that we shouldnt venture out after this time. I dont remember leaving the hotel once in Joburg and luckily it was connected to four other hotels and a shopping mall so we never did go out, only to catch a flight to capetown. From what i remember the hotel in Cape Town didnt really say anything about safety. I just remember them stressing it in Jo’burg. We did take the garden route which was absolutely magical, but didnt have any bad experiences at the farms we stopped off at. I think that the problem has probably gotten worse in recent years, I know it certainly has in Kenya. For locals, we would know not to go near townships, but in SA where townships are next to residential areas how on earth is a foreign couple meant to know the difference? In Kenya the townships arent anywhere near the good residential areas, and no one would venture near them at that time anyway. However, in Kenya they will catch you almost anywhere, even by your gate, there have been so many times where we have been followed at night, you just have to be alert. However, a honeymooning couple probably wouldnt even be thinking about that as its a foreigh country. What happened to them is unfortunate and my heart goes out to them.

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  193. @Shelley
    There is an old adage: “Travel broadens the mind”. I sense that you have already realised just what contrasts exist between different nations. Having lived all my life in England I am only too aware just how lucky I am. Your experiences are very sobering to read. Nobody in my family has ever been subjected to the sort of violence you relate. Your comments earlier about the course of events following Anni Dewali’s murder indicate to me that you have a very balanced view. I wish you well.

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  194. @Shelly
    @Andrew

    Okay, I accept that I dont have ‘inticate’ knowledge of SA – my only experience is a few visits there. And yesh, despite my previous post I would trust British police of African ones any day.

    For the sake of clarity you guys are suggesting that the SA system is totally corrupt and has no intergity? That the SA authoriies have framed this carjacking/murder on Shrien to protect the SA tourist industry? I dont buy this as because it’s not as if SA denies that there is a serious crime problem, does it? And 99.9% of tourists that visit SA are aware of the risks and follow the basic do’s and don’t’s to ensure a safe trip.

    Upon being granted bail Shrien’s lawyer said that he’s client “wanted justice and for the truth to come out”. Obviously he is fighting extradition – so how does he intend to for this to happen?

    I, too, find the suggestion that Shrien is responsible for all this a bit fanciful, but Andrew have you seen some of the things Shrien has said to the UK media and via Max Clifford? You accused other posters on this thread for being selective – doesn’t the same charge apply to you? Your assertion that Shrien didn’t have ‘any reason’to deserve the suspicion is a cheap shot. A man was convicted a couple of days ago in Bradford for killing 3 women and eating the thighs of one his victims – what was his reason?

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  195. Seen this? A South African man killed his wife in a staged car jacking in a case that appears to bear some similarities to the allegations against Briton Shrien Dewani.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1341208/South-African-husband-admits-plotting-wife-murdered-case-echoing-Dewani-killing-allegations.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

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  196. @ Martin

    Thank you for that, i wish you well too… Out of curiousity, what is your take on the situation? How do you feel about it? I have to say that you are extremely lucky to have lived all your life in England, and when I went to school there/study there presently it is so great to be able to live life freely without having to watch your back constantly. Whilst in Kenya, I almost feel as though I am in a prison of sorts. My heart is always in my mouth in the nighttime whilst we are driving back home. However, these are risks you have to take if you choose to stay in a country like this. Dont get me wrong, it is absolutely beautiful, and Kenya is worth coming to see for the wildlife etc (not trying to promote it) but security is definately an issue here and should you ever visit Africa atleast you now know that you need to be careful. They generally tend to leave tourists alone, and do think that in the Dewani case, it was a robbery gone wrong, and honestly doubt the husbands involvement. Like Andrew said, they are trying to cover their asses now because they were so not bothered about finding her in the first place. They probably NEVER anticipated this much media coverage and now are trying to preserve their ‘integrity’ in a crooked manner (which is nothing new in Africa). Hope i havent put you off too much

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  197. ps: sorry about some spell mistakes – i’m half asleep & typing on a minature keyboard on my phone!

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  198. @ Bluenose

    For the sake of clarity you guys are suggesting that the SA system is totally corrupt and has no intergity? That the SA authoriies have framed this carjacking/murder on Shrien to protect the SA tourist industry? I dont buy this as because it’s not as if SA denies that there is a serious crime problem, does it? And 99.9% of tourists that visit SA are aware of the risks and follow the basic do’s and don’t’s to ensure a safe trip.

    I am suggesting that the SA system is totally corrupt and has no integrity. Where does all the AID money that comes to these countries go? It lines the big fat pockets of all the senior politicians, and it it something the Developed countries have cottoned on to. The expenses scandal in Britain was NOTHING in comparison. In Pakistan, when the floods happened did the President (who has over a billion dollars to his name) even contribute a dime of his own money to help the victims? NO, he kept asking for aid but refused to spend any of his own money (which probably has been accumulated from the AID money given to Pakistan in the first place). That is the common thread in African countries. You can throw money at Anything, and can get away with ANYTHING if you are in a powerful position, believe me. OFCOURSE they are going to say that they have a 99% crime rate, because that is public knowledge, there is no escaping that. However, they are pinning this on him so that it looks like a foreigner has come and exploited their country. As for hiring a PR person, Dewani isnt a pro at this, and when the global media is going crazy you obviosuly need a professional to help you with this. To top it all of he is grieving the death of his wife. All the evidence they have given so far is circumstantial, they are basing their main evidence on claims from people who i can guarantee have been tortured and forced into saying all of this. This is just common procedure in these countries trust me. They couldnt be bothered, and i wouldnt be surprised if some of these criminals have been framed too. You just never know. All this is is damage control because they took their sweet time in trying to find her in the first place and could not be bothered. Sadly that is the truth, and its only after all this press coverage that they have to save their asses.

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    • … and the conflicting stories by Shrien? For example, he told the SA police he was thrown from the car whilst it was in motion but told the UK tabloids that he was forced out at gunpoint whilst it was stationary? Go to the previous thread for more conflicting stories. No doubt you are going to suggest that he was too traumatised to recall the exact details of the carjacking. Or maybe amnesia because he did remember (in his interview in the Daily Mail) that ‘Anni told him in Gujarati that she had hidden her 25k engagement ring under seat’

      All he wants is “justice and the truth to come out” – how does he intend for this to happen. Max Clifford drip-feeding the media perhaps?

      Shrien’s integrity is shot to pieces – he created a fake travel agency website to defraud the lodge at Kruger NP & had the audacity to claim a refund for the return portion of Anni’s airline ticket. And you suggest it’s just ‘uneducated Africans politicians in high places’ that are crooked?

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  199. As for his conflicting stories I cant answer that as I dont know him personally. However, I wouldnt listen to what he told the SA police as it seems as they will distort everything to their advantage. As for the UK tabloids, I generally would agree with their version because they are careful about their sources. To be honest, when my dad was held at gunpoint he could barely recall the details, he had three men in a car with him and they were all pointing their guns at him and they beat up the driver too. Unless you are in that position and have gone through it yourself it is very difficult to judge. Even if i were to ask my dad now what happened exactly he is quite hazy about them. The mind has a way of blocking out unpleasant traumatic events. I didnt say all the africans are uneducated. The president of Kenya went to LSE and studied economics there, he is extremely educated. I am talking about people like Cele – police comissioners etc that are uneducated, and dont care what the world thinks about them, and cant speak in a dignified manner. Now if you were in Shriens position where you had the police comissioner calling you a monkey, are you HONESTLY telling me you think you would get a fair trial? As for defrauding the lodge, i dont know if you read a recent article where they interviewed the lodge owner and she said she only gave them the third night free. To be honest, I know that this is wrong, but it is indian mentality, and they would do anything for a good deal. I dont think that makes him a murderer at all, and people are confusing the facts now. I do think that the SA media (which has generally been wrong about most things) have blown this out of proportion too. I dont think that he should have given a press interview the day after because clearly he was in shock. When my aunt passed away unexpectedly (she was v young) we were baffled by her sons actions, he went out the night before the funeral and hadnt seemed to register what was going on and thus acting in a bizarre manner. It was only two weeks later that he really broke down and accepted the reality of the situation/what had happened. People react to grief in different ways and to dissect each and one of his actions is extremely unfair, because grief/trauma/shock make people do absurd things. I am not trying to defend him but am only reflecting on my experiences, that have led me to form the opinions i have on this matter.

    As for politicians, the same applies to India, Pakistan etc. the politicians there are just as corrupt as they are in Africa, it is a developing world thing.

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    • Wow, you certainly have got an axe to grind. You have a preconceived view on how the world operates – it’s very George Bush-esque: ‘Good’ vs ‘Evil’. And all events (major or minor) must fit your theory (or else!)

      Funny how you’re father recalls that there were ‘three men all pointing guns’ – is he sure it was only three? Is he sure they had guns and not spoons?

      I was caught-up in a terrifying situation in Port Elizabeth a few years ago – the fact is you remember the hard facts (like thrown from a car or pushed out) and forget the minor details (engagement ring)?

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  200. ps as for claiming a refund, I was quite shocked about that myself. However, he seems so out of it that it might have been a family member who did it for him and must be disconnected from all of this in which case shame on them. Think that has something to do with whoever claimed it back (and it was reported it wasnt him) and that is frankly quite awful.

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  201. @Shelly @Martin
    Britain=small island/small population in comparison to S.A.
    It’s futile to compare.
    Corruption, brutality, crime is not exclusive to S.A.
    Media misinformation is not exclusive to S.A.
    Erm, ‘British press more reliable’ made me smile, but seriously that’s not funny.
    The world is more informed, especially since the birth of www.
    These days are long gone, where public-discussion could’ve deemed a ‘trial’ invalid.
    As i’ve said, only those present on that day of Anni’s murder know the truth. No-one can be closer to that truth. Neither you, the media, nor i can be positively sure of innocence or guilt.
    Let there be a ‘trial’ so that each bear witness.
    While you bemoan the injustice of S.A, what do you propose ‘it’ should do?, other than feed ‘it’ with apathy & prepare ‘its’ grave.
    Surely you’re not suggesting that ‘court cases’ be thrown out on the basis that corruption is widespread.
    If that is the case, then people can just about do as they please, ie: get away with murder. Is that a responsible insinuance to convey about your beloved homeland and to the wider global community?.
    You may not like the justice dept, you may not like the SAP, you may not like the social infrastructure, but please spare a thought for those who do their utmost to ensure some justice. The unmentioned, the folks who keep the clock ticking.
    You may not know them by name, but support ‘those’ people more often, more openly, stand-up for them, instead of accepting S.A. as totally incapable.
    Of course, it would be inhuman to blind oneself to the negatives, but please take note: When you can only ‘cry’ a country down, you are taking part in its destruction.
    Trillian3-UK

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  202. @Sally
    I have read your posts with quite some interest. You have made some very interesting and valid suppositions about why Dewani may have acted the way that he did. In that respect you could almost be his high paid QC lawyer. I am British and have lived in several different countries. I have travelled to several different African countries, including Kenya, but not South Africa. I find your take on Africa and Africans quite narrow. You appear to be tarring every one with the same brush, even presuming things about the SA system of justice while you have no experience of it. I do agree with you that in Kenya there does appear to be a lot of dishonesy. When I visited I was surprised at the extent. However, that has no bearing on this case and how it is being handled by SA.

    Despite all the explanations, I am still not convinced about Dewani’s innocence. There is no reason for a wealthy man to be fraternizing with a poor SA driver. There was certainly no reason for him to meet him surreptitiously to pay him for a fare, and not in the open where his Father in Law could have seen the transaction. The fact that he was not hurt during the “hijacking” could be explained by the fact that he got out as quickly as he could and is now too afraid to tell the truth about what happened that night. However, I can’t get away from the fact that he met the driver several days after his wife was in the morgue. There would be no reason to do this. Remember the explanation that the text message while in the car was to explain that the fare was in the back seat or wherever he put it. That behaviour and action does not add up. I truly hope he is not cold blooded enough to do something like this to his wife, but I don’t need a motive if there is evidence pointing in this direction. I wish Anni’s family well. They seem very classy. Her Father has a lot of faith in the system of justice that he observed in SA when he was there. I have no reason to doubt it if he has the victim’s father believes in it.

    If you hate African and in particular Kenya so much, why not leave. You obviously have an option since you were educated in England. You have instead chosen to stay there, reap the benefits of all that it offers, and yet bad mouth it every opportunity you are given. Your family obviously do well enough there. Well enough to send you to a boarding school in England. Have you taken the time to identify and assist African youngsters who may benefit from your tutoring and mentoring, and perhaps even financial help? Then perhaps the next generation might be better educated and more equipped for public service jobs like the police. It is, afterall, their country and many of them do not have the option to go somewhere else.

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  203. @Martin
    My previous post should have stated @ANDREW..I apologise.
    it can be confusing reading posts that include pasted comments of other posters. Erm, it’s easy to lose track.

    With regards to Shrien ‘innocent or guilty’, & despite ensuing media tit-bits from all camps, my ‘sense’ says he’s involved but I can’t possibly know for sure. Let the court hear those accused bear witness.
    Whatever the outcome, and until then, will I feel closer to giving a definative opinion.

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  204. @ SHELLEY AND ANDREW

    For people who live in Africa you sure seem to read it with the eye of an outsider.
    Next thing you will tell us that because Nairobi is Dangerous so is Dar-e-salaam.
    Because there was genocide in Rwanda, ‘minority’ groups n Namibia must start packing their bags.
    Or because Somalia is not a state, Botswana is also in danger of falling to pieces.
    Or because South Africans are aggressive, people in Lesotho are also the same.
    Or saying the fact that I can’t marry someone of the same sex in Zimbabwe, the same applies in South Africa.
    Therefore a corrupt cop in Kenya, means every cop is corrupt everywhere in Africa, even those who
    have good professional records, and love their jobs??
    This is insulting to brave police men and women who did everything to find Shrien’s wife.
    Bearing in mind, they did not know if they were giong to face armed kidnappers demanding a ransom.
    Bearing in mind, the Western Cape government put huge pressure on them to ensure that tourists do not feel
    their lives will not be taken seriously.

    Your comments insult the intelligence and dedication of the helicopter squad team, the forensic team that within hours used that evidence to catch the first suspects (which led to all the others), the sniffer dog team that they brought, the coroner who wrote a report that Shrien’s defence is now using to PROVE that Shrien is innocent.

    Your comments insult the judge that looked at Jacob Zuma’s case and used HIS mind to decide that he was NOT GUILTY and he would with Shrien if the stae’s case is nonsense.

    Your comments insult the POLICEMEN who had to take the case against Jacob Zuma IN SPITE of his public popularity (he was not president at the time).

    I find your lack of nuance about Africa quite telling given that you live here. You speak from the prejudiced script of the well-off classes whose fear of crime and social distance from lesser off paints everywhere in Africa with one big black corrupt brush. which is not to say you hold prejudice, but you allow it to inform your comments.
    Yet you both live here, which means, something functions.

    If I said all business people in Kenya are corrupt and all its well-off are snooty snobs, you would probably laugh me off.

    Kenya is not South Africa but there are similarities in areas.

    Firstly, South Africa is way more dangerous than Kenya. Nairobi is an exception because it mirrors Joburg.
    Secondly, South Africa is way more industrialised and developed than Kenya. We have better infrastructure, better systems.
    Thirdly – But we are also new in our independence, we have more social violence, less interesting literature, very useless land reform, far bigger class divisions and inequalities, a longer and different colonial record, a shorter independence history – problems that people faced in 1970 Kenya, we are only starting to face now.

    Now – Pointing out that Shrien Dewani’s case is being treated with the utmost care and sensitivity is not a form of patriotism, it is simply looking at what is happening.

    The guy had a police helipcopter, sniffer dogs, squad teams, detectives assigned to find his wife, which they did in a HUGEEE township within a matter of hours of the crime being reported.
    That is the work of excellent professionals.

    Shelly is CORRECT about high levels of crime and the effects of being hijacked or having a gun pointed at you. Absolutely correct.
    It is terrifying, you are incoherent.
    Correct also about trusting cabbies, etc.

    There is corruption in the South African police system.
    But let me tell you how it would have worked in this case – The WELL-OFF accused has to know one silly lazy cop who is close to the case and get him to lose the ‘docket’ (the case file).
    This is the kind of thing that happens to POOR south africans, their case files get lost in the system and no one cares to find them. It especially happens to rape victims.
    Police just pretend a case was never opened.

    That is the corruption that is the most rife and it usually benefits the PWOERFUL and WEALTHY who do not want their cases to come to court.

    This is NOT going to happen in this case because it is a WEALTHY person who was murdered. So the system works faster and more efficiently when WEALTHY people are victims.

    It is Shrien who is more likely to BENEFIT from corruption in the police force because he could pay off idiots to lose a few pieces of paper. But I doubt that he would succeed because IRONICALLY – if you are a tourist we give you the best resources and most professional people to handle your cases, which means, they’re not corrupt.

    WHAT MAKES SHRIEN/ ANNI HIJACKING UNIQUE-
    – The groom gave very odd conflicting explanations of what happened to the media. He volunteered this information himself. South Africans simply followed what HE SAID and what he said was very odd. Not least of which the story of walking on a beach and it was a perfect evening when in fact it was a terrible evening and no one walks on that ugly beach in the dark!
    – This is no different than if I came to Nairobi claimed to be a victim of crime, said it a pleasant evening to walk when everyone knows it was pouring with rain! People in Nairobi would be like – huh?
    – Crime victims do not MISREMEMBER how a crime happened. All that happens is you are probably stunned into silence because of shock. They will also mix up time because robberies happen in a flash.
    But they will remember, exactly where they were when they were suddenly attacked. And they will also remember WHY they were there and what brought them there!
    Usually you remember the WHY because you want to know if you could have done it differently, or maybe done it at another time.

    SHRIEN made for a baffling victim – apart from getting the beach and weather TOTALLY wrong; he then also seemed to forget WHY they were going into Gugs… and he also DEFENDED the reason!
    He said later that it WASN’T RECKLESS TO GO into Gug’s at night!
    No sooner had Tongo the taxi driver become a suspect – Shrien’s version changed.

    I’m sorry for Shrien’s family and friends, I’m sorry for those who are close to him because it was Shrien who should have kept quiet.
    I accept all the testimony about him, and the evidence put forward about his love for Anni.
    I do not reject that.
    I simply put it next to his initial unguarded behaviour following the murder – and also remind myself that the latest evidence of his good character is orchestrated by a man most Birtish people thing is an unethical all-to-powerful idiot who protects the wealthy from the repercussions of their bad behaviour.

    There are many stories working in Shrien’s favour. But he is to blame for WHAT he has said.

    But for the record – it is not patriotism – but bafflement and confusion that leads people like Alexis and I to ask questions.

    @ALEXIS

    Sorry I wasnt referring that rent boy comment to anything you had said. I was just drawing your attention to my thinking because the forum is getting very long and unmanageable again.

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  205. ATTENTION ATTENTION SA POLICE

    PLEASE DO NOT EXTRADITE SHRIEN
    APPARENTLY THERE IS SWINE FLU IN ENGLAND!!

    Let the diseased First World keep their diseases to themselves!!!

    #STOPFIRSTWORLDSWINEFLUFROMINFECTINGHEALTHYAFRICA

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  206. @SHELLY

    I just saw your comment that the polic were not bothered to find Anni in the first place.
    That is a rather unfortunate and ignorant comment.
    Shrien himself stated that the police were excellent, their PI also said the very same thing.
    Initially the first guy he met seemed slow, but within an hour they had already moved the systems and
    by morning had found her body.
    It may very well happen that the first policeman was slow, he was on duty at night and probably was trying to keep himself awake but he did kick into action.

    There is so much information on this case in the public domain (thanks to Shrien) so you can make better judgments
    if you read rather than following your gut instinct and the things Andrew posts on here.

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  207. @Shelly, @Andrew
    We recently discovered of the frantic efforts of Shrien to get the cops, squad teams, helicopters and private detectives deployed to help him ou that night into the morning. We hear abour the real bewilderment of a foreigner against the indifferent wait and see attiude of the copys. NONE of this was disclosed by the SA’s, who showed selective video clips and remarks to reflect a different picture. The fact is that Tongo actually changed his story after he met with the cops.
    Alexis asks whether YOU were on the plane – like the Mighty Self Appointed Judge – yet she cannot ask herself where SHE WAS when ANY of this happened? Probably in her dark hole drinking black coffee to contain her nerves and paranoia of being sued by any one and every one.
    @@@ The reason I asked that question was because I was asked if I had seen the smses and call logs of Shrien and/Tongo. That said, is it necessary to attack me and my personal views? I, more than anyone else on this forum have had a great deal of contact with the Ministries of Justice and Police and the staff reporting to them. I have also had dealings with the DPP, NPA, the Public Protector and the Human Rights Commission. As I said before, I have also spent vast amounts of time at the Western Cape High Court. My cases there were of a civil nature, not criminal. By the way I have been sued in the past BUT someone asked me whether for example the owner of the Blog could be sued or whether we were in contempt of court – read my response. Unless you change the tone of your comments, I will not respond to them in future. @@@
    The truth – and I mean the truth whicher way it really happened – can only come out if all parties act with reason and aim to find true justice – not orchestrated justice and the SA side has shown, through its direct and public threats towards Shrien (and he has received many other serious threats against his life) that once he lands there, this government will do all in its power to say it was right and he was wrong.
    @@@The only way to achieve this would be for Shrien to return to SA but he does not wish to do this. Instead he has played his part in the “trial by media” and continues to do so. @@@
    As you so rightly identified, there is too much pride at stake here for them to give up and this pride that Alexis and other ignore had elevated to the levels where a suspect is being hidden away by the government and has been openly granted immunity from prosecution if he speaks against Shrien.
    @@@I am very pleased that the suspects are “hidden” or witness protection programmes. No, I am not pleased about anyone getting off scott-free if they committed a crime. The granting of immunity occurs all over the world but I am neither a judge nor a magistrate so I am unaware of the legality in that respect.@@@
    He has been set up to save the tourist industry in SA. They have the idiot Cele, i mean who lets him speak??? This isnt the first time he has said something silly, last time it was about him wanting the Americans to lose in the first round. Thats what i mean about these africans in high positions, who have no education, thinking that they are above the law and saying whatever they want. OFCOURSE they are going to say that they have a 99% crime rate, because that is public knowledge, there is no escaping that. However, they are pinning this on him so that it looks like a foreigner has come and exploited their country.
    @@@You really are a racist … I urge you to be a little more considerate and less vocal about Africans. Shrien exploited this country, of that we are certain.@@@
    All the evidence they have given so far is circumstantial, they are basing their main evidence on claims from people who i can guarantee have been tortured and forced into saying all of this. This is just common procedure in these countries trust me. They couldnt be bothered, and i wouldnt be surprised if some of these criminals have been framed too. You just never know. All this is is damage control because they took their sweet time in trying to find her in the first place and could not be bothered.
    @@@Are you aware that there is a legal process which will take place at the Western Cape High Court as a result of these claims? It’s being referred to as a trial within a trial. It’s up to the judge to decide whether their statements will be admissible or not.@@@
    Now if you were in Shriens position where you had the police comissioner calling you a monkey, are you HONESTLY telling me you think you would get a fair trial?
    @@@Yes he will. @@@
    You appear to be tarring every one with the same brush, even presuming things about the SA system of justice while you have no experience of it. I do agree with you that in Kenya there does appear to be a lot of dishonesy. When I visited I was surprised at the extent. However, that has no bearing on this case and how it is being handled by SA.
    @@@I agree, South Africans are being tarred with the same brush, especially black South Africans and it’s offensive”.@@@

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  208. O.K. folks – as Solly said, this thread has got very long now making it difficult to navigate and follow.

    I’m closing this thread now to further comments

    Can you continue the debate on this new thread ?

    Thanks, guys

    http://tinyurl.com/27uxqmw

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