Anni Dewani’s Murder : Cops have Motive

by duncanr

On Thursday, a UK court will consider a request from S.Africa to extradite Shrien Dewani to face a charge of orchestrating the murder of his wife Anni.

While there are grounds for believing Mr Dewani does have a case to answer for, the lack of a clear motive has been used by his defenders as an indicator of his innocence.

If a new report is to be believed, however, the S.African police are satisfied that they have established the motive for Anni’s killing. – see http://tinyurl.com/4nfkbwn

[thanks to Madhatters commentator ‘Sheeda’ for the ‘heads up’]

Select ‘Dewani’ from the ‘Category Filter’ at top of right menu bar to view previous comments and posts about Shrien and Anni Dewani

254 Comments to “Anni Dewani’s Murder : Cops have Motive”

  1. @duncanr – *blush* 🙂

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  2. Now that the police are saying that they have a motive, the weasel is saying that he will return voluntarily to South Africa, subject to certain conditions. Of course that would mean staying out of jail for a year or so until the case is finalised, as opposed to being extradited and going straight to jail whilst the case is continuing. Cannot wait for 20 January.

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  3. @SOL (on previous thread)

    – You have no proof that the car had its child lock on. Every car has a child lock, this is not a luxury. You have taken dewani at face value.
    – You have not read Tongo’s statement – the car is his and he may have registered it under a false address as many normal south africans do. Because he moves places often.
    – Why drop off Tongo and Shrien 20 min apart? Because it would look really suspicious wouldn’t it if both Shrn and Tongo had been dropped off at the same time – that is if Shrn planned the murder. It makes sense to drop them off in different places, giving more time to get away. If they had been dropped together, then the crime would have been reported within 5 minutes, the murderers caught faster.
    We know Tongo did not alert the police for a reason – coz he says he was hired to facilitate murder!
    So we know why he didnt report the crime by his own admission.

    – Is Tongo a skilled liar? Well on that we can find some truth. If he is willing to kill, he is willing to lie.

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  4. @ ALL… I think that the SAPS may have had a motive FOR A WHILE and obviously could not disclose these details UNTIL the trial/extradition hearing SO Here I give CREDIT and applaud the SAPS, “Sources” and the MEDIA for not LEAKING the “possible motive” , and this must surely be making Shrien & his defence team stew in the meantime.. cos surely they were expecting a LEAK so that they could come back with a “ludicrous” justification….
    I knew in my Heart that when Extradition process began THAT SA Authorities would NEVER go this far, did they NOT have concrete evidence.. I just cannot wait to hear/see this evidence…
    @ SOL… If the driver & hubby were dropped off together don’t you think this would have raised Anni’s suspicions??.. So obviously, misleading the unsuspecting Victim, hubby portrayed the “innocent, loving spouse” for one last time & I CANNOT for the life of me begin to think IF ANNI thought about Shrien in her last moments.. wondering if HE WAS OK.. or if they harmed him.. cos as per Chloe’s statements it can be concluded that SHE did love her husband .. probably MORE than he ever loved her!!….. 😦

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  5. @ LEE

    If the Clifford Mirror is to be believed, then Anni may have very well known that something was amiss because the Mirror reports that the suspects told their warder that Shrn simply opened the door and got out…..

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  6. @ ALL PEOPLE ON FORUM I HAVE EXCHANGED VIEWS WITH

    **I CAN’T WAIT FOR THURSDAY**
    I want to hear the police’s theory on possible motive…
    I feel that we have put forward many ideas about a possible reason for why this crime happened…

    If the husband did it, and it has still to be proven, I always thought it would be mundane – like she discovered he was gay or something…

    But i have a deep sense of foreboding, that something ‘worse’ is to be revealed…

    oh …

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  7. @ SOLLY.. that report about him opening the door & walking away actually just slipped my mind for a moment.. thanx for that reminder.. OR MAYBE I just do not wanna think that a HUSBAND is ever capable of such desertion.. Now I am even SADDER… 😦 😦 😦 😦
    **I CAN’T WAIT FOR THURSDAY**>> Me 2 @ Solly!!!!!!!!!… Me 2!!!!!!!!!…
    Suspense is killing me.

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  8. @ solly, lee and andy stone – I too cannot wait – if only to find out the motive and what new evidence they have.

    I have a few questions and hopefully a fellow commentator can assist with some answers? How long does the extradition hearing take? will we get a decision on Thursday or can the matter be adjourned? Are media allowed in the court during such hearings? If the decision is granted to extradite him, how long before he returns to SA?

    apologies if this was discussed already – there are so many threads and so many posts – and i am too lazy to read all of them again :-p

    @Lee, I’ve posted previously about imagining how Anni must have felt when she realised that Shrien was behind all of this. That betrayal, that sense of desertion, the shock – not something one would wish on your worse enemy (unless you are Shrien Dewani of course). have you seen the pics taken by Cloe Spelling? There is one of Shrien (on a game drive) where he looks completely bored, disinterested, as if he wished he was elsewhere and the one where they are sitting side by side with her hand on his knee – he looks as if he would rather be anywhere else besides there at that moment. Not at all the loving, smitten husband that his supporters and Max Clifford have been trying to portray to the world. A picture speaks a thousand words……

    Oh, and finally – pls watch the video clip of the BBC report re: him wanting special concessions – he does not look like a man who has been constantly sedated or having lost so much weight – in fact he looks quite healthy…..no bags under his eyes – nothing.

    Btw. What happened to Max Clifford? We have the priest and Hasmukh Shah talking on his behalf now. Where’s Max? It’s absolutely ludicrous that he has been silenced!

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    • @Sheeda- your comments on the Pics reflect my sentiments exactly i.e. bored; wished he was elsewhere etc. He didn’t exactly make an effort on his grooming either – see his hair.

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  9. @ Sheeda .. Thanx dol for all the latest info on the vids etc as I have been a bit hectic lately tokeep up much with all this.. HOWEVER you have raised some very VALID questions that raised my curiousity just that little bit higher… Would love to read responses on those questions.. I am no expert on the law or legal system BUT from what I heard on local news this morning I am aware that a team has been sent up to the UK for this hearing so , I dont know if it safe to assume, BUT I am assuming that should the extrtadition be successful THEN this team may escort Shrien back to SA??…
    Don’t know if you guys also followed up on the other story of the SWISS rapist who has been extradited… (it took almost 11 years) – for raping a female in SA – PMB – year 1996… Although he appealed the SA Authorities never gave up & he is now here to serve his sentence…He used every reason for appeal even citing SA jails not being humane enough for criminals etc etc BUT I guess JUSTICE eventually prevailed at the end!!…..THAT SPEAKS MUCH FOR PERSERVERANCE and AGAIN here I APPLAUD the SA Authorities & the team involved for their dedication!!…

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  10. – You have no proof that the car had its child lock on. Every car has a child lock, this is not a luxury. You have taken dewani at face value.

    Did the police check this? Child locks only work one way, locking your in. SO the gunman only had one way to get Dewani out of the car (other than stopping and the other guy opening the door.) Cars are designed so that you can get out of them quickly in case your get caught in floodwaters. Car designers are very safety conscious because every country has different rules that change all the time.)

    – You have not read Tongo’s statement – the car is his and he may have registered it under a false address as many normal south africans do. Because he moves places often.

    I have read his statement…but there is no intersection like he said. So he was still lying in the second statement.
    How did he own such an expensive model of car.? (250 000 rand, not much cheaper second hand.)

    – Why drop off Tongo and Shrien 20 min apart? Because it would look really suspicious wouldn’t it if both Shrn and Tongo had been dropped off at the same time – that is if Shrn planned the murder. It makes sense to drop them off in different places, giving more time to get away. If they had been dropped together, then the crime would have been reported within 5 minutes, the murderers caught faster.

    Look suspicious to who? (If they intended to kill the woman it wouldn’t matter what she thought.) They had taken the phones. It would have taken ages for either of them to find a police station. They had local knowledge. Dewani did not have a clue where he was. It only makes sense that they chucked the driver out first, so that Dewani would not be suspicious of him.
    We know Tongo did not alert the police for a reason – coz he says he was hired to facilitate murder!
    So we know why he didnt report the crime by his own admission.

    His admission is a lie. Tongo did not alert the police because he wanted to give his buddies enough time to rob the Dewanis. They (the four South Africans involved in this crime) have not got their stories right because it is a STORY…they are not telling the truth.

    I bet that Irish husband who lost his wife on honeymoon is thanking his lucky stars he did not go on holiday to South Africa.

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    • interesting points.. which may give him reason to suspect a stitch-up.

      what is your take on:

      • Shrien giving conflicting accounts of how he was ejected from the vehicle?

      • The calls/texts between him & Tongo

      • The ‘Real Africa’ statement? 

      • A millionaire that finds the cost of a official hotel/airport transfer ‘too expensive’

      • The illegal exchange of USD despite there being money changers in the shopping mall next to his hotel?

      • The ‘fantastic’ walk on the beach when in fact it was cold & windy?

      • You mentioned that Tongo has five kids by five wives which makes him a ‘liar’. Shrien has also lied. Who is nobler?

      I could go on & on… but this thread has had 000’s of comments because of Shriens actions & statements. Everyone on this forum acknowledges that Tongo is dodgy despite his statements matching the evidence. What do you think of Shrien?

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  11. Having 5 kids by 5 wives does not make a person a liar.. In the black culture more than 1 wife is allowed… I am NOT disputing the fact that Tongo is a liar.. as obviously he lied to the whole world BEFORE being found out..
    BUT faking a web/mail addy & posing as a travel agent to get a discount .. NOW I ask u is that allowed??..
    What else was he FAKING…??? Maybe da German Escort guy has an answer on that 1……………..

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  12. Blunose:
    • Shrien giving conflicting accounts of how he was ejected from the vehicle?
    It would have happened very quickly. Sometimes when you don’t know why something happened ie the car just stopped (and at the time it does not appear significant )you say what you think was the reason. Dewani had every reason not to have known why Tongo stopped. Tongo was driving – he wouldn’t make a mistake about something like that. But he is LYING – there is no intersection.
    • The calls/texts between him & Tongo
    Tongo was supposed to be organising a trip around Cape Town before dinner. He arrived too late for them to see the sunset from Signal Hill. What does the text day? (Where are you…we are waiting!)
    Tongo thought Dewani had all his $1,500 worth of dollars in rand on him. He texts Dewani saying “Have you got the cash?” (for my £95 a day rate?) When your taxi driver picks you up he does not ask you bluntly. “Have you got the money to pay me…this is rude.) But Tongo wants to know that Dewani has all his cash because he wants to relieve him of it. Dewani receives this text. (Shakes his head) and texts back: “Yes, under the seat.” (Tongo has previously told Dewani to put his money under the seat when they are travelling because of carjackers.)

    • The ‘Real Africa’ statement?
    No self-respecting Cape Townian hangs out at the waterfront. (Unless you like the sports bar. (It is a tourist trap full of foreigners and people from Joburg etc who don’t know any better.)

    • A millionaire that finds the cost of an official hotel/airport transfer ‘too expensive’.
    The shuttle cost £60 for a one way trip to the hotel. The Dewanis need a tour guide to show them the sights. The driver had an expensive Sharan VW with airconditioning and worked for a legit taxi service as well. And he was prepared to be their driver for £95 a day? (He looked legit.)

    • The illegal exchange of USD despite there being money changers in the shopping mall next to his hotel?
    IF somebody gives you $1,500 dollars in cash and the dollar pound rate is not good, If you bank the money in your account, you will get charges and the bad rate. You have to have a dollar account to bank dollars as dollars. Ordinary people do not have dollar banks accounts in addition to their normal sterling accounts.
    Dewani is a hard-nosed businessman. He changes all his dollars into rand (drawing attention to himself) because he has to pay the driver in cash (£95 X 3 days and he wants to buy a big wooden giraffe to take back home and some other crap for his relatives.

    • The ‘fantastic’ walk on the beach when in fact it was cold & windy?
    It might have been cold and windy but the view of Table Mountain would have been awesome.

    • You mentioned that Tongo has five kids by five wives which makes him a ‘liar’. Shrien has also lied. Who is nobler?

    Lies or honest confusion. It happened fast. He wasn’t paying attention. He trusted his driver.

    I could go on & on… but this thread has had 000′s of comments because of Shriens actions & statements. Everyone on this forum acknowledges that Tongo is dodgy despite his statements matching the evidence. What do you think of Shrien?

    I think Shrien should have gone to Sardinia.

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  13. Sol
    January 18, 2011 at 3:34 pm
    The shuttle cost £60 for a one way trip to the hotel.

    http://www.capegrace.com/discover/capetown

    “Take advantage of our complimentary chauffeur service to reach locations within a 20km drive of the hotel. ”

    So that’s that particular argument down the drain I’m afraid to say!

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  14. Sol
    January 18, 2011 at 3:34 pm
    Blunose:
    • Shrien giving conflicting accounts of how he was ejected from the vehicle?
    It would have happened very quickly. …………….

    I’m sure he would have remembered if he’d opened the door himself, if the door had been opened from the outside or if he’d been booted out of a tiny window opening ….

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    • @Milo – thanks for the BBC Prog link.

      I didn’t think the prog was well researched or balanced – I think the discussions on Madhatters was better balanced; and the reporter would have done well to read all the threads.

      I noticed – NO MAX CLIFFORD on the prog – why?

      I thought what was said by the SA law officer Hoffman sounded of sour grapes; and totally DISLOYAL to the great nation of South Africa. Afterall which legal system is totally fair or unbiased?. If the SA legal system is good enough for all the other crimes committed in SA then I say its good enough for trying this crime.

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  15. Julie
    I think that is a new service.

    Elsewhere on the site (your link) it says: Airport transfers can be arranged at an additional charge on request. A cancellation fee will be applicable should a transfer be cancelled within 3 hours prior to collection time

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  16. Last nights totally one sided BBC Inside Out West programme that only seemed to really represent Dewani’s version of events, and I say that lightly as there were no explanations or answers to of any of the major questions. There was also no one from the South African authorities or Anni’s family and friends that contributed and all interviews were given by Dewani family spokesmen or pro-Dewani pundits (including several carefully selected South Africans).

    Here is part of the transcript I noted:

    Reporter: @ Hello tonight we are in SA with a special investigation into the murder of Anni Dewani on her honeymoon. Her husband Shrien Dewani from Bristol stands accused of hiring hitmen to kill his new wife. An accusation he strenuously denies. This week the SA authorities will argue that he should be extradited. WE ASK CAN SHRIEN DEWANI EXPECT A FAIR TRIAL??’

    Friend Pankaj Pandya
    Quote: ‘ This guy is completely innocent. Shrien is, is, is, innocent. AND THAT’S A FACT!’

    Reporter:
    ‘Inside Out understands there are records of those text messages held by both the SA authorities and the Dewani family. But the Dewani’s INSIST THAT ‘THEY CAN BE EXPLAINED.’

    Friend Hasmukh Shah
    Quote:
    ‘A mobile was the only way of communication, they are very confident whatever they have out there, there is a perfectly good answer for that, and they are going to depend on their legal team to put forward and clear Shrien’s name.’

    Reporter:
    ‘At midday Tongo says Mr Dewani asked to be taken to a currency exchange so that he could convert U.S. dollars into rand. It was later claimed in court that the money was to pay hitmen and changed on the black market. So no records were kept.’

    Friend Hasmukh Shah’s response:

    ‘I asked Prakash Shrien’s father he said this is quite a normal thing to do for tourists and taxi drivers are not just taxi drivers in such countries, they are also tour guides and would know exactly where exhange bureaus are. They would sometimes have their own favourite, erm exhange bureau because it’s quite normal for them to get some commission as well. So he would have been taken to a place where this was possible. Whether it is erm… whether the funds were exchanged err in err with a receipt or not, I think it is quite normal for tourists to be taken where the taxi driver would take them’.

    So Mr Panya says Dewani is innocent ‘FACT’ so we should just take your word for that then Mr Panaya??? Shrien should have no problem going back to South Africa and proving it then!

    Mr Hasmukh Shah says they are very confident there is a perfectly good answer for the text messages between Dewani and Togo, but it seems he and Dewani’s defence do not know exactly what that might be, as absolutely no answer or attempt at an explantion was given last night.

    I think that Dewani will fight this extradition until the bitter end. His friends, family, spin doctor the hateful Clifford have already laid the groundwork – claiming he is not well etc etc, and that he will not get a fair trial.

    Interestingly, the Dewani camp are now claiming after last nights documentary that is was Tongo’s idea to vist the township to see some dancing, after intially saying it was Anni’s idea. This is the first time I have seen ‘dancing’ mentioned as a reason to go to the township of Gugulethu.

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  17. ‘so many unanswered questions’ . . . surrounding the circumstances of Anni’s death

    So said the reporter at the end of the BBC ‘documentary’

    Hhmm, pity the BBC didn’t see fit to address some of these ‘unanswered questions’ in this programme or at least draw them to the viewer’s attention.!!!

    This BBC programme seemed at times more like a Max Clifford production – and for a News organisation which once had a well-deserved reputation for unbiased reporting one might question the decision to broadcast such a pro-Shrien programme a few days before the court case to decide on the request to extradite him to S.Africa ?

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  18. Shrien’s text to Tongo that the money was under the car seat…why would he have to text that ..why couldn’t they just speak about it.if it was all above board?
    Was the camera at which they were supposedly looking at photos of their safari trip in the back of the car as it went into Gugs ever found? or was it supposed to be stolen?

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  19. @ALL ON BBC DOCCIE

    I cant see it. But I would expect the doccie to be more on Shrien’s side.
    He has not been proven guilty, so the angle that the BBC took makes sense – how his friends and family see the thing.
    Id be worried if the BBC began a shrien trial.

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  20. The program was utter bullshit! It was how nice the wedding was, what a nice boy Dewani was, here is a photo of him at grammar school. Utter bloody twaddle, my twaddle meter went off the scale with this pile of shit as an excuse for a serious documentary.

    More quotes I noted and it says it all really.

    Kamlesh Vyas The Bristol Hindu Temple

    ‘I would say they are main pillar of Hindu community, and Hindu Temple. I know Shrien very well, because when I started this temple and when he was in Bristol – he used to come to the temple quite regularly. Very big faith in the religion itself and always wanted to know more and more. That’s how I know Shrien.’

    Margaret Stewart former PSP employee

    ‘Prakash was the pharmacist and they had a little shop in Station Road. That shop then eventually became the office for PSP group.’

    Reporter:

    ‘During her time with PSP Margaret Stewart worked closely with Shrien Dewani’

    Margaret Stewart:

    ‘ We didn’t always see eye to eye, but I had so much respect for Shrien. You couldn’t do what he does, you couldn’t run those care homes, you couldn’t build that industry the way that he has if you didn’t have that ‘COMPASSION’ and you, and that I would say probably is one of the biggest things that he has out of everything else – is he’s ‘COMPASSIOINATE’.

    Pankaj Pandya
    ‘Oh it was a grand wedding, true Bollywood style grand wedding. There were 3 Days of err err regalia and razzmatazz, colourful event erm in a fantastic setting in Mumbai. There were elephants; there were horse riders, taken on a chariot from one place to another err so it was grand out of the world. I have not seen a wedding like that! Shrien planned it I understand…Shrien and his family planned it, and he is quite meticulous. After the wedding we had a big dinner outside in the garden, err a massive spread laid out and erm Shrien came along with Anni to each table and our table where four of our friends from Bristol were tending that wedding – brought her across and introduced to all of us formally. And that was err err quite a striking moment I still have in my memory. She was radiant she was beautiful and erm he was obviously in his full outfit nicely dressed as a Maharaja.
    Erm they couldn’t take their eyes off each other, from what I saw at the wedding they were besotted to each other. You could tell by the way they acted they were in love with each other.’

    So there we have it folks he is a nice Hindu boy that went to grammar school, and wanted to know more and more about his Hindu faith, built a business empire with ‘compassion’ a great choice of the wrong word there by Margaret, and he had an out of this world wedding – that’s right folks he is obviously innocent then!!!

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  21. @Solly

    Mate, if you saw the programme you would have a different opinion – it wasn’t impartial or objective. The BBC defines itself on fairness. As Duncanr said the reporter didn’t even raise the viewers attention to any of the ‘unanswered questions’. I’m appalled at the BBC and am tempted to complain to the Broadcasting Standards Commission. Arghhh!!

    @Beb

    It is a pity that iPlayer or/and the link provided by Milo doesn’t work internationally. Your excellent post(s) exposed the Dewani spin and propaganda that permeated throughout this programme – what was the BBC’s motive?

    @Andy Stone

    “I noticed – NO MAX CLIFFORD on the prog – why?”

    Doh!! what do you mean ‘why’? He was the writer, editor, producer & director – that’s ‘why’.

    (He was probably the sound engineer, best-boy, key-grip, runner, make-up artist & stylist too)

    @Sheeda

    As requested, here is a link (from the UK Home Offce) that should answer your extradition questions…

    http://tinyurl.com/4sboubk

    ps: Don’t hold your breath for a speedy extradition

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    • @Blunose – Thanks for the Extradition link.

      Thanks also for clarifying Max Clifford’s role in the so called documentary – a man of many talents. I had a chuckle reading your reply.

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  22. Re: BBC prog.

    While the issue of a court-conviction is yet to be decided, the BBC obviously limited the depths of probing..and yes, a prog dominated with Dewani-self-promotion. However, the BBC are professionals in the art of exposure. Within their legal re-mit, they gave S-Dewani & Co a ‘platform’ and!!! a ‘rope’.
    It’s unlikely that public-majority fell for the hype.
    Firstly, i find it vulgar that the Dewanis & Co are using media to ‘promote’ SD’s reputation, BEFORE a court-trial has even began. This will have spoken volumes to viewers.

    Motive for murder? — Money, Pride & Fear of Shame.
    It would be almost impossible to continue a facade that boasts wealth. The pressuring of oneself to conceal struggling/insecure finances, from the newly wed bride & bride’s family.The fear that personal-status & reputaion could, at some point be open to gossip & perhaps ridicule.
    Some folk believe that status & reputation is worth more than life itself.
    I won’t rest my view on the above being the only motive, but i reckon that it could be one of a few ‘driving factors’.
    And similar with the rest of this forum, i eagerly await more details, post-extradition.
    Erm, methinks Max-in-the-muddle has done a ludicrously subtle exit!!

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  23. Just posting to pickup a few threads and i have the benefit of “some contrast studies” so to speak. Naysayers might even say “flimsy” contrasts LOL!

    I have the dubious experience of being South African – LOL -, and recently returned from Legends in Mauritius where i spent my annual Southern Hemisphere summer holiday. A week after my return i saw what happened to Michaela Harte at Legends on TV and said immediately it would be the cleaners and valets. Did not take rocket science to work that one out!

    There is a lot that can be said about the resort, its problems, and its overall context in an impoverished society, but this is not the forum for that.

    What is so massively stark is that there is a world of difference between these two husbands in the way they behaved subsequent to their wives deaths.

    I once also had the dubious pleasure of meeting Hans Klaar – at a party in Durban in the late 1980s and subsequently became aware of the rape 1996 charges and how he dealt with them – Hans is the man the South African Police recently succeeded in extraditing to South Africa. What did Hans do? He ran !!!!!

    While there is temptation to compare the two honeymoon murder cases -they both involve local scoundrels after money -, i cannot help but make the more compelling comparison and am inclined to think that extradition is now an inevitability.

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  24. Blunose…I did not see the programme but the BBC, unlike Cele, has to be careful not to be in contempt of court – ie acting in a manner which prejudices the admin of justice. Contempt of Court is designed to prevent newspapers and media from publishing material that is too extreme or sensationalist about a criminal case until the trial is over and the jury has given its verdict.

    So the obvious question is why, on the eve of Dewani’s extradition hearing, did the Chief of Police for the second time release a sensational public statement, condemning him?

    Are they trying to give Dewani’s team ammunition?
    You can only conclude that they do not want Dewani to come back and have experienced lawyers pick through Tongo’s statement and show it for the pack of lies that it is. So they leak smears, they hint at damning evidence, they whisper in the Hindochas ears that Dewani is involved…and they give Dewani away out, so people will forever blame him and they can avoid having a full trial that shows 4 South Africans did this. (And cover up embarrassing facts like that the killer was out on bail, having previously committed a very serious crime.) (Enough ammo for the Dewanis and Hindochas to separately sue.) Why did they take 5 hours to find the car (it wasn’t hidden in a desert.) How could Tongo own such an expensive car? (You can buy cheaper mercs) Why is it not registered in his name? Why did Tongo return to the hotel 2 days after the carjacking to claim his taxi fare. (Because he knew Dewani did not suspect him.) Dewani did not suspect him because of the charade of throwing out Tongo first. There is no other explanation for throwing Tongo out first.

    .

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  25. @ Solly
    “Why did Tongo return to the hotel 2 days after the carjacking to claim his taxi fare. (Because he knew Dewani did not suspect him.) Dewani did not suspect him because of the charade of throwing out Tongo first. There is no other explanation for throwing Tongo out first.”

    IF Dewani organised the killing there is a perfectly obvious explanation for throwing Tongo out first i.e. to make it look as if Tongo and Dewani were not part of a conspiracy together. This point was also made by an earlier poster. I find it remarkable that you seem so determined to overlook such an obvious point. Your entire argument rests on the assumption that Shrien is innocent, which is not necessarily the case.

    Certainly it will be very interesting to hear what is said at the extradition hearing tomorrow, which should clear up a lot of the hot air that has been talked about this case.

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  26. @ Blunose .. I agree with Andy Stone.. yr response re Max Clifford made me chuckle 2.. 🙂
    Well I also did not see that BBC video HOWEVER from what I read so far it sounds like a campaign on Shrien’s good character..
    So what if the Hindocha family decide to counteract & make a documentary about Anni’s lifestyle & upbringing .. her morals and values… ??? Now who would you think the public is gona sway toward???… Like come on….. Everybody does good deeds in life BUT this is not justification enough to say that a person is incapable of murder??? #DUH#
    AND this may be in the past or may have been answered before (I may have missed it)… Is it da norm in the UK to pay a cabbie by leaving money UNDER THE SEAT??… I mean common practice here in SA is that fares exchange hands..???
    @ Thinking.. Yes , I did follow the Hans Klaar extradition story….

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  27. @ Solly 2 – could you please revert to Sol as i almost confused you with dear fellow commentator Solly – until i read your post.

    Yes, Tongo is lying. Tongo lied so that he could cop a plea bargain to spend 18 yrs in jail, the very same jail that Shrien’s supporters are claiming is inhumane, overcrowded, a rape hell hole etc for MURDER when he could have copped a plea for robbery which would have had a much lesser sentence and a jail term in a minimum secure facility. but no, Tongo being the idiot that he is, willingly CHOSE to confess to being part of a murder and willingly chose to spend 18 yrs of his life in Pollsmoor because he is lying. And, to add to the idiocy of Tongo – if it is found that his statement is untrue, the poor schmuck gets 7yrs extra in jail – so he decided to lie and lie and lie.

    Oh wait, he was probably forced to make that statement – by Bheki Cele, the SA government, the people of SA, the police, the prosecutors – we ALL went to the police station and demanded that Tongo lie in order to save our dwindling tourism (which surprisingly has not been affected at all…damn we need to try harder to get these damn tourists out of Cape Town and SA) and to hide our dismal crime stats (still the same even after his statement and all the hooha made by Max Clifford – who can we pin the blame on next for a crime… the Pope – yes, that would work.)

    Hmm, one of the killers was out on bail when this crime was committed. He was granted bail pending his trial – oh, how could we silly Souf Effrikens do that – Shrien is out on bail pending his serious trial in the UK – so it’s only in SA where bail is granted to suspected criminals and only in SA where it is embarrassing. Yes, we are hiding our heads in shame.

    Maybe all the anti SA and SD supporters should take a step back and try to see the matter without the Max Clifford spin and then maybe you will be more objective and open minded when reading tongo’s statement, Shrien’s ever changing stories, etc.

    Like

  28. @ bluenose

    thanks for the link.

    I wish i could be a fly on the wall in that hearing tomorrow – I’ll be safe because according to Shrien’s priest – he wouldn’t hurt a fly – a wife yes, but not a fly! Lucky fly.

    🙂

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  29. @Sheeda.

    Exactly. The really interesting question is as to why Tongo pleaded guilty in the first place. Was he presented with overwhelming evidence against him? I suspect that after tomorrow’s hearing we will be rather better informed about the answer to this question.

    For your interest, regarding UK extradition in general:

    http://www.channel4.com/news/uk-extradition-a-matter-of-trust

    Like

  30. Lee

    Is it da norm in the UK to pay a cabbie by leaving money UNDER THE SEAT??… I mean common practice here in SA is that fares exchange hands..???

    This was a driver who was being paid a daily rate of R950 (£95) so it is not clear when the driver would be paid. Would he be paid on the last day of their 3-day trip or at the the end of each day he worked for them.More importantly would they still keep him on (because he was so unreliable – ie late!.) This robbery was done hastily on the first night before Dewani spent all his money.

    Like

  31. @ Sheeda>>>>>>>> 😆

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  32. Solly.. Sol.. Solly… Pls don’t mess with my mind…lol

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  33. @Solly
    So the obvious question is why, on the eve of Dewani’s extradition hearing, did the Chief of Police for the second time release a sensational public statement, condemning him?

    Are they trying to give Dewani’s team ammunition?

    Solly I hate to admit that wrt to Cele’s latest statement, even I was pd off when I watched the news! In fact I watched him say it not once, but thrice! There was no need to make that statement. If it comes out tomorrow or any day from tomorrow onwards then so be it but why go on national television to make that statement…. Well, it was provocative at least and terribly annoying. He admitted that he could not release the info yet but then why spill half the beans now? Today, yet again it’s in our newspapers and online news. We are experiencing disastrous flooding and loss of lives and it’s heading south…that is what people want to read about, not the latest Cele statement.

    However Dewani has shot himself in the foot badly this time. What has happened to Max? A statement released said “Dewani wants to return to SA to clear his name and will do so provided that he is granted bail until his FINAL APPEAL !!! Good grief, that means he is expected to be found guilty but will appeal and appeal and appeal… That is rather “normal” for people who have loads of money but the process could take years ! Firstly, he is a flight risk (he has already proven that – he promised to return if he was required to do so then refused to so he cannot be trusted). According to media releases he is on suicide watch. How the heck can he be granted bail? Again, he is making demands and right now after practically admitting guilt, he wants bail in SA ! I’m guessing he has hired either William Booth or Koos Louw to represent him…let’s see.

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  34. I meant he is expecting to be found guilty but I guess you figured that out.

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  35. @ALEXIS

    It’s another SOLLY – NOT THIS ONE!!

    Like

  36. @ALEXIS

    Thanks for recognising my internet speech… I feel my identity has be taken over…’

    😦

    no offence SOL…

    Like

  37. WHY IS THE NEW SOLLY ANSWERING QUESTIONS POSTED TO ME!?

    Anyway, this AVATAR belongs to ORIGINAL SOLLY

    The new Solly has another avatar…

    Like

  38. Sorry for the Sol/Solly mix-up. (I am called both.)
    Actually Sheeda…if Tongo had pleaded guillty to culpable homicide…he would have been given 15 years. But because the woman was shot and stabbed the judge would have given him 18. (So actually made no difference to Tongo’s sentence. He was going down for 18 years. He was not going to be put in a nice prison.

    Seconly a man who is being tried for killing his wife is not considered a danger to the public. So even in the UK Dewani would have been out on bail. But if he had committed a crime against a member of the public, he would not.

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  39. Sol

    Sheeda’s point is that Tongo would have pleaded guilty to robbery not culpable homicide (ie manslaughter). Where does culpable homicide come in to this?

    Secondly, clearly if he pleaded guilty to robbery (or for that matter culp. homicide), with a plea bargain he would clearly get considerably less than the 18 years awarded for murder.

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  40. … and your point on bail in the UK is oversimplified. Eligibility for fail in the UK is assessed under several criteria, one of which is the danger represented to the public but also includes the likelihood of the suspect absconding. It is highly unlikely that if a foreigner was accused of killing his wife in the UK that he would then be granted bail because of the flight risk. Hence it’s perfectly correct that SD should be held in custody when returned to SA.

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  41. jg
    Not under South African law. If he was involved in a conspiracy to rob/kidnap (that went wrong and somebody ended up dead) it would be culpable homicide. (Which is 15 years.) If he was involved in a planned conspiracy to murder he would be facing 25 years. (Common Purpose Murder) But because the victim was robbed and stabbed it would be 15 years plus.
    You can’t say well I didn’t know they would shoot/stab her…which Tongo probably did not realise when he got involved.
    Let’s hope if one good things comes from this trial is that people realise if you identifying targets for robbery it makes you just as guilty as the person who does the job.
    If you drive the car in an armed robbery of a bank and somebody gets killed in the bank under SA law you are guilty of Common Purpose murder. If they were killed accidentally – culpable homicide.

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  42. correction
    … he would NOT then be granted bail because of…

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  43. Sol
    Are you a lawyer?

    Like

  44. @Sol

    Confused…

    What charges is Shrien likely to face – ‘common purpose murder’ or conspiracy to murder?

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  45. I’m assuming not, since you don’t seem to understand to understand the concept of a plea bargain.

    If I were charged with murder and I wanted to do a deal, I could plead guilty to CPM. If ,however, I were charged with murder or CPM but my version amounted to only conspiracy to commit robbery, I could plead guilty to robbery. The court then has the discretion to sentence as it sees fit, subject to the minimum sentencing guidelines. Its just a process of negotiation between the accused and prosecutor.

    Anyone using commonsense reading this can see that if you merely conspired to rob, you would hardly agree a plea deal which convicts you of murder with a small deduction on the top tariff sentence. The murder conviction will also ensure that he gets a much tougher time in whatever jail he passes teh sentence in.

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  46. jg

    “If ,however, I were charged with murder or CPM but my version amounted to only conspiracy to commit robbery, I could plead guilty to robbery. The court then has the discretion to sentence as it sees fit, subject to the minimum.

    No and no. That is not how the law works over here.
    You are not getting it. You cannot say I only wanted to rob them I did not know they would kill her. Ignorance of the law is no defence. (So don’t try it in SA you will be charged with culpable homicide even if you had no idea somebody would end up dead)
    Tonga was originally charged with kidnapping, robbery with aggro, murder and obstructing justice. He pleaded guilty to all four charges and for implicating Dewani and saving the court time and a trial got 7 years off. (18 years)
    He did not plea bargain a lesser charge, only the sentence. If he behaves himself he could be out in 10 years.
    You are wrong in thinking he could have admitted to robbery and received a lesser sentence. He could have plea bargained for a culpable homicide charge, but as I have already explained, that would have brought him 15 years plus (ie the same sentence). He had nothing to lose.
    Dewani will probably be charged with kidnapping and Common Purpose murder. (25 years)

    Like

  47. Of course you can plead guilty to a lesser charge. I give up!!!!

    Perhaps its just as well they have trial by judge in SA… lol

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  48. @Sol

    Okay, so am I right in thinking that Tongo was unable to plead a lesser charge of ‘just’ robbery because, whether it was planned or not, a murder had occurred therefore the only plea bargain available to him was ‘culpable homicide‘ which carried a similar sentence to ‘common purpose murder’?

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  49. I think the Dewani’s have something to do with the Documentary, they must have paid BBC shit loads of money to make this documentary to support him.
    I did not see the documentary, but reading on this forum makes me wonder, they got the money to do anything really.

    If Tongo had said, he had nothing to do with the hijack & the murder, would he have been on free foot today?
    (money under the seat or taking money from Shrien last day wouldnt have been such a big deal, he could have turned around and said, he found out that wife got murdered the night of hijack, when he called shrien and asked to be paid for his service)

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  50. Last comment on this.

    Here’s the definition of common purpose:In English law, the doctrine derives from R v Swindall and Osborne (1846) 2 Car. & K. 230 where two cart drivers engaged in a race. One of them ran down and killed a pedestrian. It was not known which one had driven the fatal cart, but since both were equally encouraging each other in the race, it was irrelevant which of them had actually struck the man so both were held jointly liable. Thus, the parties must share a common purpose and make it clear to each other by their actions that they are acting on their common intention so that each member of the group assumes responsibility for the actions of other members in that group. When this happens, all that flows from the execution of the plan will make them all liable. This is a question of causation in that oblique intention will be imputed for intermediate consequences that are a necessary precondition to achieving the ultimate purpose, and liability will follow where there are accidental and unforeseen departures from the plan so long as there is no novus actus interveniens to break the chain. In cases where there is violence beyond the level anticipated, the prosecution must prove:

    (a) an act done by D which in fact assisted the later commission of the offence,
    (b) that D did the act deliberately realising that it was capable of assisting the offence,
    (c) that D at the time of doing the act contemplated the commission of the offence by A i.e. he foresaw it as a “real or substantial risk” or “real possibility,” and
    (d) that D when doing the act intended to assist A in what he was doing.

    If there is doubt as to whether all the participants are contributing equally, those defendants whose contribution is less may be charged as accessories rather than as joint principals.

    So what do we draw from this? Well, rather obviously, the fact that you plan a robbery and in the commission tehreof someone dies, does not automatically lead to common purpose murder. It’s something that the prosecution has to prove. So if you were, say, charged with CPM and robbery, the prosecution has the remit to accept a plea deal on the robbery and drop the CPM. The only restriction would be if the facts as admitted by the accused didn’t match the crime, which in this case they clearly could.

    Sol’s point is a complete red herring. He isn’t a lawyer, has no legal training and doesn’t understand basic criminal procedure. (I’m not going to waste time also discussing the assumptions on CPM sentencing which are also incorrect.) Just a lot of uninformed hot air I’m afraid, and there’s too much of that around.

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  51. @jg

    Yikes! I think (a big THINK!) I get it… Is it possbile that SA law has different legal definitions which explains your and Sols interpretation on this?

    Like

  52. I should add I’m a qualified barrister and SA proceural and common law is based on English law. Does that end the debate?

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  53. 19 January 2011 Unanswered questions remain over honeymoon murder.
    By Jonah Fisher

    BBC News, Johannesburg

    The first call I received about the Dewanis was the day after Anni had been killed. It was a Sunday and I was the correspondent on call in Johannesburg.

    Initial reports were that a British woman had been murdered on honeymoon in Cape Town. It was potentially a very big story.

    Then it emerged that Anni Dewani was a Swedish national and that her husband was British.

    After a series of discussions with producers in London it was decided that the story was no longer of major interest to a UK audience. So that day the story went unreported on the BBC.

    When the newspapers came out on Monday morning it was clear that a mistake had been made. Anni Dewani may have been Swedish but she was living in Bristol and the tragedy of this honeymoon murder had clearly struck an emotional chord.

    We spent the day catching-up as we pieced together the couple’s last movements on that fateful Saturday night.

    One question already stood out. Why did they decide to drive through the township of Gugulethu late at night?

    ‘INFORMED DECISION’
    The next day I had a chance to find out for myself. I was despatched to Cape Town to follow up on a story.

    I headed for the luxury Cape Grace Hotel where the honeymoon couple had stayed and where members of both Shrien and Anni Dewani’s family had now gathered.

    It was a scene that does the journalism profession no credit. With the grieving family seated in the restaurant area, reporters loitered anxiously in the lobby or nearby on the balcony.

    All but one of them had been rebuffed in their attempts to speak to Shrien Dewani about what had happened three days before.

    So it was with some trepidation that I placed my business card on the Dewani’s table, introduced myself and prepared to leave.

    To my surprise Shrien Dewani did want to talk to the BBC. It was clear he had been closely following coverage of the murder and was angry.

    He told me that he wanted me to correct all the inaccuracies that existed on the BBC website about events the night Anni died. I pulled out my notebook and sat next to him.

    First and foremost he was upset that I had in my TV report called their decision to take a night-time drive into Gugulethu a “big mistake”.

    Shrien Dewani said that it had been an “impulsive” decision but it had been an informed one.

    ‘REAL AFRICA’
    Mr Dewani said he knew Africa well and that they had in fact driven through Gugulethu twice that night. Once on the way to a dinner in Somerset West and once fatefully on the way back.

    Shrien Dewani then told me that it was Anni who wanted to go to the township a second time. He told me, as he had said to another journalist, that she wanted to see the “real Africa”.

    For many people in South Africa that decision is hard to understand. The townships that surround Cape Town are relatively safe during the day. But at night they are poorly lit and, for tourists at least, mostly “no go areas”.

    Mr Dewani told me that after dinner they had walked on the beach in Somerset West and that Anni had wanted to get back to Cape Town to have some ice cream.

    If so why did she first insist on taking a detour through a dark street that she had seen only a few hours previously? And if Shrien Dewani did know Africa as he told me he did – why did he allow it to happen?

    If Mr Dewani ever appears in court in South Africa it will primarily be the testimony of his taxi driver Zola Tongo that he will have to counter.

    Mr Tongo has already started an 18-year prison service having entered a plea bargain. It states that he colluded with Mr Dewani to engineer both the carjacking and murder.

    ‘MIRACULOUS ESCAPE’
    Not surprisingly Mr Tongo’s version of that night is very different from Mr Dewani’s. He says that during the first visit to Gugulethu the hitmen he had organised were late. They drove on to Somerset West making a second township visit necessary after dinner.

    Crucially, Mr Tongo says he communicated with Mr Dewani throughout that evening by text and phone to finesse the plan. That evidence, if it does exist, may prove pivotal at any future trial.

    The second part of Mr Dewani’s account that raises eyebrows is his own seemingly miraculous escape. South African criminals are not known for their compassion. So why then did the carjackers force him out of a window unharmed before killing his wife?

    Rape would have been one reason. But the post-mortem examination shows that she was not sexually assaulted.

    When I spoke to Mr Dewani at the time he refused to go into details of how he managed to get out of the hijacked car saying he found it “too upsetting”. Others have been less charitable suggesting he should have fought harder to save his new wife.

    But amid all the speculation and pointing of fingers at Shrien Dewani, problems remains for those asserting his guilt.

    Firstly, is it possible that Mr Dewani, as it is alleged, simply approached a taxi driver at the airport to organise a hit just a few days later?

    Secondly, no-one has as yet come up with a motive that sticks. Shrien Dewani’s sexuality has been questioned, as have his finances, there have been mutterings about Anni Dewani’s sad texts home and tears on a plane.

    But no-one has come close to explaining how a relationship could have gone from marriage to murder in just two weeks.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12229112

    Like

  54. Blunose – you have got it.

    JG – SA law based on Roman Dutch law. Look up case of Lawrence John Bradbury (A Brit charged with CP murder in SA) and member of Richardson gang. He was the driver in a bank robbery that went wrong.)

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  55. Bluenose – you have got it!
    JG SA law is based on Roman Durtch law. – see case of Lawrence John Bradbury, member of Richardson gang. Driver in a robbery charges with CMP. (And eat your hat!)

    Like

    • Sol,

      You would find it a lot easier to carry on your squabble with JG if you used the same email address every time you commented. This would stop your comments from disappearing into moderation, and make the admin’s lives a little easier.

      Cheers.

      Like

  56. Wrong again Sol! Criminal law is based on English law. Only civil law in SA based on Roman law. Please dont quote things to me that you just picked up on the internet but dont understand


    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Jump to: navigation, search

    South Africa has a ‘hybrid’ or ‘mixed’ legal system, made of the interweaving of a number of distinct legal traditions: a civil law system inherited from the Dutch, a common law system inherited from the British, and an indigenous law system inherited from indigenous Africans (often termed African customary law). These traditions have had a complex interrelationship, with the English influence most apparent in procedural aspects of the legal system and methods of adjudication, and the Roman-Dutch influence most visible in its substantive private law.[1] As a general rule, South Africa follows English Law in the areas of Procedural Law, Company Law and the Law of Evidence; while Roman-Dutch Common Law is followed in the South African Law of Contract, Law of Delict (tort), Law of Persons, Law of Things, Family Law et cetera

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  57. JG Wrong again Sol! Criminal law is based on English law. Only civil law in SA based on Roman law. Please dont quote things to me that you just picked up on the internet but dont understand

    SA law is based on Roman Dutch law.

    Lawrence J. Bradbury was a Brit who came here with the Richardson gang. He was only the driver involved in a diamond heist. Somebody got killed. (Bradbury had no idea he was in the car waiting to speed away.)
    Bradbury got the death sentence for CPM. He turned State witness and his sentence was comuted to life. Go and find a law book and stop googling Wikipedia. And stop pretending to be a lawyer.

    Like

  58. You dont get it do you? The issue is one of procedural law and how plea bargains work. It isn’t about establishing whether common purpose cases exist. I cant debate this with you, its like arguing with a child.

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  59. Thanks guys (sol & jg) – I am now officially confused!!

    Does this help…?

    The Criminal Procedure Act 51 of 1977 of South Africa states at Section 105 ; “Accused to plead to charge. — The charge shall be put to the accused by the prosecutor before the trial of the accused is commenced, and the accused shall, subject to the provisions of sections 77, 85 and 105A, be required by the court forthwith to plead thereto in accordance with section 106.”

    Section 77 deals with an accused’s capacity to understand proceedings and 85 with Objection to a charge before pleading.

    Section 105A

    In terms of this section the prosecutor and an accused who is legally represented may, before the accused pleads (in terms of Section 105) to the charge brought against him or her, negotiate and enter into a plea and sentence agreement (Agreement).

    This is in respect of the following :

    (i) a plea of guilty by the accused to the offence charged or to an offence of which he or she may be convicted on the charge; and (ii) if the accused is convicted of the offence to which he or she has agreed to plead guilty — (aa) a just sentence to be imposed by the court; or (bb) the postponement of the passing of sentence in terms of section 297 (1) (a); or (cc) a just sentence to be imposed by the court, of which the operation of the whole or any part thereof is to be suspended in terms of section 297 (1) (b); and (dd) if applicable, an award for compensation as contemplated in section 300.

    In order to avoid prolixity we won’t set out all the parties and the factors the state has to consult before concluding the agreement but in short he has to look at the accused as a whole, his previous convictions etc and then assess the interests of society, law and order, the victims and the police.

    The Agreement has to be in writing and confirm that the accused has been fully briefed on his rights, set out the terms of the Agreement, the substantial facts of the matter, all other facts relevant to the sentence agreement and any admissions made by the accused.

    It has to be signed by the prosecutor, the accused and his legal representative.

    The court shall not participate in the negotiations up to this point.

    After reading out the charge the prosecutor shall, before the accused is required to plead, inform the court that an Agreement has been entered into.

    The court shall then require the accused to confirm that such an agreement has been entered into; and satisfy itself that the requirements of the act have been complied with.

    If the court is not satisfied that the agreement complies with the requirements of the act it will inform the prosecutor and the accused of the reasons for noncompliance; and afford the parties the opportunity to comply with the requirements concerned.

    When the court is satisfied that the agreement complies with the requirements of the act the court shall require the accused to plead to the charge and order that the contents of the agreement be disclosed in court.

    After the contents of the agreement have been disclosed, the court shall question the accused to ascertain the following : (i) he or she confirms the terms of the agreement and the admissions made by him or her in the agreement; (ii) with reference to the alleged facts of the case, he or she admits the allegations in the charge to which he or she has agreed to plead guilty; and (iii) the agreement was entered into freely and voluntarily in his or her sound and sober senses and without having been unduly influenced.

    After this inquiry has been conducted the court shall, if the court is not satisfied that the accused is guilty of the offence in respect of which the agreement was entered into; or that the accused does not admit an allegation in the charge or that the accused has incorrectly admitted any such allegation or that the accused has a valid defence to the charge; or (iii) for any other reason, the court is of the opinion that the plea of guilty by the accused should not stand, record a plea of not guilty and inform the prosecutor and the accused of the reasons therefor.

    NB If the court has recorded a plea of not guilty , the trial shall start de novo before another presiding officer: Provided that the accused may waive his or her right to be tried before another presiding officer.

    If however the court is satisfied that the accused admits the allegations in the charge , and that he or she is guilty of the offence in respect of which the agreement was entered into, the court shall proceed to consider the sentence agreement.

    The court for purposes of sentence can then direct relevant questions, including questions about the previous convictions of the accused, to the prosecutor and the accused; and hear evidence, including evidence or a statement by or on behalf of the accused or the complainant; and must, if the offence concerned is an offence referred to in the Schedule to the Criminal Law Amendment Act, 1997 (Act No. 105 of 1997); or for which a minimum penalty is prescribed in the law creating the offence, have due regard to the provisions of that Act or law.

    If the court is satisfied that the sentence agreement is just, the court shall inform the prosecutor and the accused that the court is so satisfied, whereupon the court shall convict the accused of the offence charged and sentence the accused in accordance with the sentence agreement.

    If however the court is of the opinion that the sentence agreement is unjust,, the court shall inform the prosecutor and the accused of the sentence which it considers just.

    Upon being informed of the sentence which the court considers just, the prosecutor and the accused may either,, (i) abide by the agreement with reference to the charge and inform the court that, subject to the right to lead evidence and to present argument relevant to sentencing, the court may proceed with the imposition of sentence; or (ii) withdraw from the agreement.

    If the prosecutor and the accused abide by the agreement as contemplated the court shall convict the accused of the offence charged and impose the sentence which it considers just.

    If the prosecutor or the accused withdraws from the agreement as contemplated in the trial shall start de novo before another presiding officer: Provided that the accused may waive his or her right to be tried before another presiding officer.

    Where a trial starts de novo the agreement shall be null and void and no regard shall be had or reference made to any negotiations which preceded the entering into the agreement; the agreement; or any record of the agreement in any proceedings relating thereto, unless the accused consents to the recording of all or certain admissions made by him or her in the agreement or during any proceedings relating thereto and any admission so recorded shall stand as proof of such admission.

    The prosecutor and the accused may not enter into a plea and sentence agreement in respect of a charge arising out of the same facts.

    The prosecutor may proceed on any charge

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  60. jg
    We have already established what happened in the plea bargain. (The sentence was reduced not the charges.) The court docs are available online.
    If you are a Brit attorney perhaps you are familiar with this case: Johns v the Queen (1980) 143 CLR 108

    It seems there ARE similarities between CPM in SA and in UK.
    Funny you didn’t know that. It seems a lot of people didn’t know that which is why they think Tongo had no reason to lie.

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  61. jg

    “it’s like arguing with a child.”

    – You are the one who believes a man can confess to “just being the driver” and bargain on his terms for whatever sentence he thinks he deserves. Doesn’t even happen in the UK. Johns v the Queen (1980) 143 CLR 108. Look it up. and then Shut up.

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  62. @Sol

    Forgive me for coming across as a dunce…

    Tongo has entered into a plea bargain by implicating Shrien in order to reduce his sentence – now if he is found out in a subsequent trial to have lied presumably his sentence reverts back to the full term?

    For the accused there is a strong motivation (reduced sentence) to enter into a plea bargain but surely the authorities wouldn’t take the accused at face-value would they? They must have strong evidence that matches the testimony in order to enter in such an agreement? What would be the authorities motivation (or reason) for entering into a plea bargain in this case?

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  63. Sol

    I take it back. In fact you must BE a child. If you don’t listen you won’t learn.

    All

    On a serious note, the issue of what Tongo could plea bargain or not is important. As a robber, it would have been a very bad plea bargain, but as a murderer, he made a fair one. It’s unhelpful when unqualfied individuals profess knowledge or expertise where they clearly have none and attempt for whatever reason to mislead people. I assume that he is just ignorant but well-intentioned, but nevertheless it is irritating.

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  64. WHY DID HE GIVE THE COPS THE WRONG BLACKBERRY PIN!!

    That was the whole basis of his bail conditions!! Remember how the magistrate said he was cooperating by giving his BB pin, so this showed good faith….

    This man is a total liar…! Ok but I bet after this case Max Clifford is not going to be taken seriously by the press…!
    I mean, why did the press take him seriously in the first place only god knows…

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  65. I don’t believe Tongo entered the plea bargain to reduce his sentence. Far more likely, he could see himself spending years in gaol, yet the main instigator walking away scot free. There is no way he would have entered the plea bargain if SD were the innocent victim of th.e carjacking.

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  66. Like most of the others I am very happy that the 20th of January is almost here. As the trial progresses I have a feeling that what will be revealed will make Anni’s death seem all the more senseless and sickening. Justice must be served regardless of a person’s wealth. The so called concessions make it sound as though Dewani’s team knew that they had already lost the extradition battle, and didn’t want to lose face. I can’t wait to hear what the SAP have discovered the motive was.

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  67. @ALL
    Okay, its finally come out in the sun newspaper…..so I can confirm that there is something ”wrong” with Shriens sexual functioning…..he told Anni about this quite a while back…..so she backed off from marrying him…..then told her he had had treatment and was now much better…..but he was an ‘old fashioned” guy…so would wait till after the wedding to get sexual with her……
    and after the wedding …..Anni found out that he cannot function…….( does NOT make him gay)…..and wasnt best pleased with it…..and ”possibly” said she would be seeking a divorce from him………..
    As for ”motives”….in my mind there are three possibilities………..
    1. Two weeks before the wedding Anni broke up with Shrien……and was persuaded by family to go along with the wedding…..to save face and …..in the hope that all will be well afterwards….(these things happen)…
    Shriens dad had to plead with Annis family to make her ”understand”…..now this is very insulting to Shriens dad in hindu culture….and Shrien possibly thought ….ok girl I will kill you for insulting my father…no-one does that and gets away…..again a common way of thinking….no one insults parents of hindu people…..its not taken too kindly…
    2. Anni asked for a divorce …which would bring shame to the family (Dewanis)……so better kill her as this would also ….stop the possibility of Anni claiming any of Shriens wealth.
    3. If Shrien is gay then killing Anni would leave him to do as he pleased without family pressure to marry….as he could play the grieving husband……and talk about the loss of the love of his life………
    Yes, I am also looking forward to see what comes out today although I rather think that it will not be a lot and a lot of evidence may be heard by the judge ”privately”………..as it will be the same evidence used at any trial….

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  68. Thanks Milo, Duncanr and thank God it’s D Day…

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  69. If this is true, it’s what I expected.

    ttp://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/01/20/honeymoon-murder-suspect-misses-court-amid-health-fears-115875-22861613/

    Honeymoon murder suspect misses court amid health fears

    *
    *

    by Tom Pettifor, Daily Mirror 20/01/2011

    THE husband of murdered honeymoon bride Anni Dewani has pulled out of his extradition hearing at Westminster magistrates’ court today as his health worsens.

    According to his spokesman Max Clifford, Shrien Dewani, 31, who is on £250,000 bail in Britain, has “been very unwell in recent weeks.”

    He has been charged with ordering the hijack shooting of his wife Anni, 28. He denies the allegation.

    The care home boss escaped unharmed from the hijacking and taxi driver Zola Tongo, 31, later claimed Shrien had ordered the killing carried out by alleged hitmen Xolile Mngeni, 23, and Mzwamadoda Qwabe, 26.

    Read more: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/01/20/honeymoon-murder-suspect-misses-court-amid-health-fears-115875-22861613/#ixzz1BYUlxWrS
    Go Camping for 95p! Vouchers collectable in the Daily and Sunday Mirror until 11th August . Click here for more information

    Like

  70. @ MILO… I agree to disagree with some of your points about saving face etc BCOS why would Shriens dad speak to Anni’s parents and ask them to “make her understand” and go ahead with the wedding??.. I mean previously he was ENGAGED to the other Indian lady & when that engagement broke off WHY DID THEY NOT SAVE FACE THEN???…. So am ruling out that as a possible motive.. 🙂
    Holding my breath……………..

    Like

  71. @ ALEXIS…… ONLY hope that article isn’t true… Well, if it is, will give some credibility to media reporting BUT will just prove what we all here already know about Shrien… a COWARD running away…. How far can 1 run?? And for how long??? U can run BUT you CANNOT hide…………..

    Like

  72. hey all,

    Confucious is playing havoc with my mind again.

    Surely Dewani HAS to be at the hearing today – can he be represented by a lawyer only – shouldn’t he be there to verify his identity, confirm that he is against being extradited, etc or can the lawyer do so on his behalf.

    @Lee and Alexis – yes, his “ill health” excuse was expected. Just like he was too emotional to explain what really happened when questioned by the police after Anni’s death. Becoming quite apparent that when faced with reality, spoilt mommy’s boy Dewani chooses to hide instead of manning up and facing the music. he is probably huddled in his room, throwing a righteous temper tantrum “I won’t go, Mommy! I won’t I won’t I wont. It soooooo unfair! Mommy, make them stop! Make them stop! Boo hoo!

    @Beb: what stood out for me in the BBC article was “Mr Dewani said he knew Africa well and that they had in fact driven through Gugulethu twice that night” and then “Mr Dewani told me that after dinner they had walked on the beach in Somerset West and that Anni had wanted to get back to Cape Town to have some ice cream. ” How did he know Africa well, when it has been claimed that he was never here before. Why stop in Gugs the 2nd time – there is no ice cream there! Its a luxury that many of the residents cannot afford.

    Ugh, everything i read about this man makes me dislike him more and more.

    Like

  73. Found this hilarious! fell off my chair laughing. Pot meet Kettle!!!!

    Shrien Dewani is totally innocent,” Clifford said.

    “It is clear to any right-thinking person that this man Cele has got no credibility.”

    So says the man who is the most credible person in the world – NOT!

    Like

  74. @Lee
    http://news.iafrica.com/sa/699773.html

    I use iafrica often for xeno website and it has just appeared there. Today I will follow closely. Remember Michael Jackson’s case, they went to pick him up and then he appeared in his jamies and gown in court?

    Told you he would try to declare himself unfit to stand trial. Let’s see how the SA team respond and how the British Judge will react.

    Like

  75. @lee, it “appears” that the case may proceed without him being present.

    http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/shrien-too-ill-for-court-report-1.1014462

    Shrien too ill for court – report

    January 20 2011 at 10:24am
    shrien_jan 20

    Reuters

    ( File picture) Businessman Shrien Dewani is led into a prison van at Westminster Magistrates Court in central London.

    Related Stories

    * Clifford lashes out at Cele

    The application to extradite Briton Shrien Dewani from the UK to South Africa was expected to take place in the City of Westminster Magistrate’s Court on Thursday, possibly without Dewani being present.

    According to The Mirror in the UK, Dewani pulled out of the hearing “as his health worsens”.

    Dewani’s lawyer Taswell Papier and South African justice authorities were not immediately available to confirm this, but according to the report his spokesman Max Clifford said Dewani had been “very unwell in recent weeks”.

    It was not immediately clear how this would affect Thursday’s proceedings if confirmed.

    Dewani is wanted in South Africa to stand trial for the alleged contract murder of his wife Anni during their honeymoon in Cape Town in November.

    Shuttle bus driver Zola Tongo was sentenced to 18 years in prison last year in a plea agreement in which he implicated Dewani in Anni’s murder. According to his statement he was paid R16 000 by Dewani to stage a hijacking.

    She was last seen alive after the couple made a spur of the moment decision to visit a restaurant in Gugulethu outside Cape Town.

    At the time, Dewani said that they had been hijacked and he had been pushed out of the vehicle. Anni’s body was later found in the car in nearby Khayelitsha.

    Two other people – Xolile Mnguni and Mziwamadoda Qwabe – are in custody in South Africa for their alleged roles in the murder, which according to Tongo, was a paid hit.

    Dewani is to be represented by Papier, who once represented Manchester United manager Sir Alex Ferguson on sexual assault allegations made while he was in Cape Town.

    According to his CV on the website of his lawfirm he was voted Lawyer of the Year in 2006. He lists his specialities as commercial, tax and fisheries law. The Harvard and University of the Western Cape attorney had also built a reputation for pro-bono work. – Sapa

    Like

  76. @Sheeda, Alexis…
    This man has been evasive since day 1.. Evasive & Selective.. Spoke about what HE wanted to & then @ other times was “too upset” to go into detail…
    TODAY.. I am realli , realli mad.. and apologies to those in advance if offence is taken by my comments…
    Andy Stone said earlier that nobody cld wait for today as it felt like Christmas day.. My ONLY thoughts here is hanging him up by his b@ls on that Xmas tree!!………… ***ANGRY***
    THIS man (if we can even call him a “man”) clearly DOES NOT want to see Justice for Anni and AGAIN proves my point that he probably NEVER truly loved her as much as she loved him!!…
    If that article proves true.. then WHERE IS THAT COMPASSION he used to build up temples etc…?? COMPASSION FOR ANNI’S FAMILY.. Surely this is TORTURE for them (As per Mr Ashok Hindocha) 😦 … The faster he is co-operative the faster there can be closure.. But I gues behaving like the DRAG QUEEN that many are suspecting him to be.. this whole case may just be a DRAG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!…. A person with love & Compassion & WHO IS INNOCENT will never put another family thru such an agonising situation.. ONLY a SELFISH , COWARD would!!! ** EVEN MORE ANGRY**

    Like

  77. @ Alexis.. YES , I do remember the MJ gown saga..lol
    Only here I would presume that if that happens they will be dragging SD in the middle of the night CLUTCHING HIS BARBIE DOLL!!

    Like

  78. @Lee

    They said court appearance at noon SA time today. It is now 11:10am. One hour to go….. I cannot wait to hear what the next move will be. They were clever to only release this info hours before BUT the SA team should have expected this (I did for a long time but I expected him to walk into court clutching his Barbie doll) as well so let’s hope they have a plan. I assume he reported to the police station last night as part of his bail conditions.

    Like

  79. @Lee

    It appears that the matter will be postponed. If this is the case he should be hospitalized. I guess the SA team will return and at a later stage back back to the UK .. ?? .. ?? Lee, even though I expected this, I understand your anger. I’ve been chain smoking all morning.

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/article861798.ece/Dewani-too-ill-for-London-hearing
    ‘Dewani too ill for London hearing’
    Jan 20, 2011 10:46 AM | By Sapa
    The hearing to have Shrien Dewani extradited to South Africa to go on trial for the death of his wife Anni, will go ahead in London without him, because he is not well enough to attend, reports the Press Association in the UK.
    Current Font Size:

    *
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    Photograph by: ANDREW WINNING/REUTERS
    Related Articles

    * Dewani deal ‘possible’
    * No official word on Dewani return
    * Dewani ‘might decide to return to SA voluntarily’
    * Dewani extradition application nears
    * Dewani not linked to ECape murder: report
    * Anni’s uncle lashes out at Dewani
    * Judge in Dewani murder dodgy: report
    * Anni’s Last call
    * The Big Read: The Dewani feeding frenzy

    According to the PA, Dewani’s spokesman, publicist Max Clifford, said he did not need to attend court because it is a 20 minute formality to fix a date for a future hearing.

    Clifford said he did not think anyone from Mr Dewani’s family would attend the hearing either.

    The matter was set down for the City of Westminster Magistrate’s Court for Thursday.

    South Africa’s justice authorities are hoping to bring him back to South Africa to stand trial for his alleged part in the murder of his new wife Anni, who was 28, in November.

    Shuttle bus driver Zola Tongo was sentenced to 18 years in prison last year in a plea agreement in which he implicated Dewani in her murder.

    According to his statement he was paid R16, 000 by Dewani to stage a hijacking.

    She was last seen alive after the couple made a spur of the moment decision to visit a restaurant in Gugulethu outside Cape Town.

    At the time, Dewani said that they had been hijacked and he had been pushed out of the vehicle. Anni’s body was later found in the car in nearby Khayelitsha.

    Two other people — Xolile Mnguni and Mziwamadoda Qwabe — are in custody in South Africa for their alleged roles in the murder.

    Dewani is to be represented by Taswell Papier, who once represented Manchester United manager Sir Alex Ferguson on sexual assault allegations made while he was in Cape Town.

    According to his CV on the website of his lawfirm, he was voted Lawyer of the Year in 2006. He lists his specialities as commercial, tax and fisheries law. The Harvard and University of the Western Cape attorney had also built a reputation for pro-bono work.

    Like

  80. @duncanr

    ‘early riser’ 

    I wish! My little one had his MMR jabs yesterday and was up half the bloody night! Didn’t hit the sack till 4am… Have you seen what you’ve started – instead of watching Late-Night Poker or the shopping channels I was glued to my laptop!

    Like

  81. @Milo

    I mentioned that a potential divorce was enough motivation for Shrien to have Anni killed. It makes a lot of sense to me.

    What is troubling me is it possible for Shrien to have mentioned his erectile disfunction to his family and even his father-in-law? We are talking about Hindus here! Maybe I’m old-fashioned but there is no way I would reveal anything like this to anyone except my doctor.

    Like

  82. @blunose the problem is selective ‘erectile disfuntion’. Dewani is obviously not sexually attracted to women but used it as an excuse for non performance. Anni must have discovered too late that there her honeymoon was not going to go the way she anticipated and this must have caused a rift between them, therefore the lack of affection at the Kruger. I still don’t believe that this is a cause for murder. He valued his social standing in the community higher than Anni’s life!! I really detest this guy, he’s a first class wimp. He’s hiding behind a@*#h0ll Max Clifford, his family and barbie dolls. As a result of his propaganda, our beautiful country has been maligned and insulted by all & sundry, and as Indians and a Hindu, we have been the target of a lot of nastiness.. Rot in hell Shrien Dewani!!!!

    Like

  83. @Alexis, Lee, Sheeda

    “I’ve been chain smoking all morning.” – tut-tut Alexis.. Don’t ruin your health or damage your wealth on Shriens account – scumbag ain’t worth it.

    I know how you guys are feeling. I read a book by the Dalai Lama a few years ago. It was 400 plus pages but the underlying message amounted to just a few words: ‘don’t worry about the things you can’t control’.

    I used to ocassionally reign my emotions back by reciting those words in my mind but since Dewani & Co. appeared on the scene I’ve ended up continuously chanting it!

    Tut

    Like

  84. the plants are really quiet… would love to read what their thoughts are on mr dewani’s non-show

    Like

  85. Iafrica stated that there are journos who are tweeting in court, so I’ll keep you posted.

    http://news.iafrica.com/sa/699875.html

    Like

  86. @ Blunose

    That was my New Year’s resolution. Guess that one is broken! lol. Sorry your little one kept you up – I know how that feels all too well. A good dosage of paracetemol before and after those darn jabs works wonders – for baby and parents!

    Guess Shrien never heard about Viagra…….

    The hearing has started. Hopefully we will have news soon. Checking the Anni Dewani page on FB – one of the posters is at the court and updating everyone. Fingers crossed.

    And according to MC – the dewani clan are not there either. I wonder why?

    Like

  87. THANKS ALEXIS!!!!!! I am so glad you are back! mwah

    Like

  88. Dewani – so far no family or SA authority figures have arrived at Westminster Mags for hearing. Will keep you updated. #bbcnews #Dewani – BBC journo Nicola Pearson

    Inside Westminster Mags ahead of Dewani hearing. Dewani will not be attending. Will tweeds updates when I can – journo Laura Foster

    Court now full for #Dewani honeymoon SA murder extradition hearing. Queue of journos still waiting outside. – BBC news producer Dominic Hurst

    Journalists next to me at westminister magistrates court saying it’s a ‘disgrace’ twitter is allowed in court. Ha ha! – Guardian reporter Haroon Siddique

    Court room filled with journos for Dewani hearing. Hearing is yet to start. – journo Laura Foster

    Like

  89. @Shivani

    These guys dated for over 18 months. Without sounding crass – did they not have a sex prior to their marriage? That would seem really strange to me. Remember that they spent ‘alternate weekends together’. Weekend in Paris… Now, I am a Hindu & I don’t buy this ‘traditional’ wait-till-after-wedding crap in this instance!

    Like

  90. Thanks Sheeda – postponed to Feb, see below

    Dewani – so far no family or SA authority figures have arrived at Westminster Mags for hearing. Will keep you updated. #bbcnews #Dewani – BBC journo Nicola Pearson

    Inside Westminster Mags ahead of Dewani hearing. Dewani will not be attending. Will tweeds updates when I can – journo Laura Foster

    Court now full for #Dewani honeymoon SA murder extradition hearing. Queue of journos still waiting outside. – BBC news producer Dominic Hurst

    Journalists next to me at westminister magistrates court saying it’s a ‘disgrace’ twitter is allowed in court. Ha ha! – Guardian reporter Haroon Siddique

    Court room filled with journos for Dewani hearing. Hearing is yet to start. – Foster

    There’s been a request to prevent twittering in Dewani case. ‘undermines proceedings’ – Foster again

    Tweeting allowed in ct in Dewani extradition hearing – Pearson

    Dewani suffering from acute stress disorder – Pearson

    SA police accuse Dewani of conspiracy to murder, murder, robbery, kidnap and obstructing admin of justice – Simon Newton of Sky News

    Shrien dewani hearing will not take place today. Going to set future date to open hearing – Siddique

    Dewani extradition hearing scheduled for 8th Feb at belmarsh. But will be adjourned shortly after. – Pearson

    Like

  91. Dewani suffering from acute stress disorder. next hearing on 8th Feb. SA states charges as obstruction of justice, murder, conspiracy to muder, robbery and kidnap.

    Like

  92. maybe he used the excuse of saving themselves for marriage to maintain a platonic relationship and she went along with it. surely if he told her father that he had a sexual problem, then they could not have been sleeping together. Only Anni and Shrien know the truth and one of them is dead.

    Like

  93. THANX @ ALEXIS…. for the updates.. being hectically busy here & trying to keep up to date on this case simultaneously..
    @ BLUNOSE.. thanx for that msg.. I chant it @ times.. HOWEVER being a female also 😦 this case makes me a bit “weak”..
    And agree about the “wait after marriage”.. Don’t buy it either….
    Wonder why the Dewani’s are not in Court??.. Now we know where SD gets his “cant face the music” attitude from.. NOW @ MILO .. I ask.. is this saving face .. OR HIDING FACE???.. lol
    Guess the Dewani family are just as COMPASSIONATE as SD after all!!

    Like

  94. @ duncanr

    From Wikipedia

    Common symptoms that sufferers of acute stress disorder experience are: numbing; detachment; derealization; depersonalization or dissociative amnesia; continued re-experiencing of the event by such ways as thoughts, dreams, and flashbacks; and avoidance of any stimulation that reminds them of the event. During this time, they must have symptoms of anxiety, and significant impairment in at least one essential area of functioning. Symptoms last for a minimum of 2 days, and a maximum of 4 weeks, and occur within 4 weeks of the event

    There must be an immediate and clear temporal connection between the impact of an exceptional stressor and the onset of symptoms; onset is usually within a few minutes, if not immediate. In addition, the symptoms show a mixed and usually changing picture; in addition to the initial state of “daze”, depression, anxiety, anger, despair, overactivity, and withdrawal may all be seen, but no one type of symptom predominates for long; resolve rapidly (within a few hours at the most) in those cases where removal from the stressful environment is possible; in cases where the stress continues or cannot by its nature be reversed, the symptoms usually begin to diminish after 24–48 hours and are usually minimal after about 3 days.[1]

    Guess what stands out for me: “continued re-experiencing of the event by such ways as thoughts, dreams, and flashbacks;”

    Hell yeah if he continues to re-experience it! I hope it bothers him 24/7 and eats away at his soul and his mind. Permanent Derangement will be an apt punishment.

    Like

  95. @Everyone

    3 more tweets!

    Dewani hearing adjourned at Westminster Mags Ct. – Hurst

    Defence asked that shrien dewani be excused from attending feb 8 hearing but magistrate said decision should be taken nearer time – Siddique

    Dewani’s lawyer hasn’t spoken to his client today and may have difficulties taking instructions from him, magistrates hear – Pearson

    Like

  96. “ACUTE STRESS DISORDER”…. ASD… A#SH@LL SHRIEN DEWANI!!
    Hmmm.. guess MONEY can NOW buy TIME…. Just how much… hmmm..
    I guess there’s also bribery in the UK.. Who got paid here?? The Judge??… Or is there Corruption 2??.. Did Shrien”s dad (A magistrate) pull strings… NAAAAAAAAH don’t think so.. ONLY SA is corrupt LEE.. ..# DUH LEE#!!
    HERE I GO……….. “Don’t worry about the things you can’t control….. Don’t worry about the things you can’t control… Don’t worry about the things you can’t control… Don’t…………………………

    Like

  97. @ ALL… If he cannot make it to Court.. HOW is he adhering to his bail conditions reporting EVERYDAY…????
    Should they really hospitalise him then @ ALEXIS??… Maybe a PHYSCO ward.. Under strict police guard..?? Hmmm…
    Then his defence team can go report everyday on his behalf….
    SORRY @ BLUNOSE.. This chant thingy not working….lol

    Like

  98. Shrien & his defence team are BUYING time so that they know what is revealed in the FEB 20th trial of the 2 other accused.. so that THEY could come back with a “LUDICROUS” attack & denial!!.. Plain & Simple…

    Like

  99. Perhaps the UK courts are trying to push the extradition hearing beyond the trial date of the other two accused, which is Feb 13th if I remember correctly?

    If Shrien really is that ill, surely he would be unable to report to the police station as he is supposed to? I saw a pic of him leaving the cop shop about 3 days ago …. didn’t look too ill to me ….. !!

    Like

  100. SNAP Lee!! 😆

    Like

  101. @Sheeda

    Yeah, did just that – I had 5ml of paracetemol & gave the little-one 500ml of 12yr old Glenfiddich Single Malt. Worked wonders… He’s still asleep!

    Like

  102. 😆 Watch out for the next pic of him reporting to cop shop…. Clutching a Barbie Doll in his hand, being pushed in a PRAM by None other than………. you guys probably guessed!!

    Like

  103. @ Lee ***being pushed in a PRAM by None other than…***

    Max Clifford dressed as Ken in drag??

    Like

  104. @Julie, Lee

    Can the SA postpone the trial of the two other suspects until after the extradition process has been completed?

    Like

    • @blunose

      Yes, they can postpone but the NPA allocated dates in Feb (magistrates court/regional court) for bail applications of the other 2. I will wait for the NPA to release a statement later.

      Like

  105. @ Allesklar… 😆
    You know guys heres an expansion opportunity for the mnfrs of Barbie/Ken…
    No more Swimming Barbie , Sxc Barbie.. WELCOME to the new & latest Range… Physco Barbie, ASD Barbie, Liar Barbie, Evasive Barbie, ERECTILE DYSFUNCTION Ken… heheeee.. the list goes on….

    Like

  106. @ Blunose.. I am no expert on the SA Law & hopefully Alexis can shed more light on this AS this is a VERY good question you have put forward .. ALEXIS??
    However, I do hope that if @ all it is possible… then 2 can play that game …& if SA want to get tactical they should do just that!!…..
    BUT I will never give up on the dedication of the SA team seeing that Hans Klaar was extradited AFTER 11 years of perserverance……

    Like

  107. Lee

    What about accessories?

    Does ‘Desi’ Ken come with a choice of immaculate, stain-free, crease-free clothing ? 😆

    Like

  108. @bluenose, @ Lee

    I think I have a virus on my PC, it is slow to the point that I have to reboot.

    Yes, any court can postpone, including the High Court. I am very disturbed by today’s events. As I tried to say earlier, the bail applications of the other 2 have been set down for early Feb. Best for them to stay where they are or go into hiding in Dewani is not in custody. Without them, Dewani will score again. Shrien must be very careful, he is not looking very good right now because he is a FAKE, a LIAR, a CROOK, an ACTOR, a COWARD and he is screwing with his own courts now. I would think that it is possible to pay off anyone. I heard from a colleague that Bulgaria is worse than SA when it comes to corruption (her home country).

    Do you know that Shrien Dewani is in Twitter or is it a fake? Take a look at what he said today – ok I will cut and paste now now. William Booth….I will rather not comment. I came within inches of slapping his face in Wynberg Court in 2000. I have ZERO respect for him. Sorry, less than ZERO and he knows it.

    http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/dewani-prepares-to-trash-sa-1.1014591?showComments=true

    Dewani prepares to trash SA

    January 20 2011 at 01:07pm
    By Murray Williams
    Copy of iol news pic max_cele jan 20

    INDEPENDENT NEWSPAPERS, AFP

    SA’s head of police Bheki Cele, left, and publicist Max Clifford.

    Related Stories

    * Tragic bride, jailed driver, two ‘hitmen’ …
    * Shrien too ill for court – report
    * ‘Dewani does not need to attend hearing’
    * Clifford lashes out at Cele
    * Top Cape lawyer to help Dewani
    * No formal offer from Dewani
    * Dewani killing: cops to reveal motive

    As UK businessman Shrien Dewani today prepared to fight his extradition to South Africa to face charges of murdering his new wife Anni, it emerged his legal team would base its case on trashing national police commissioner Bheki Cele, the country’s prisons and its justice system.

    A top Cape Town lawyer revealed to the Cape Argus that Dewani’s lawyers were considering citing the recent case of British journalist Simon Wright, who was arrested during last year’s World Cup and who announced today he was suing the Minister of Police for R50 million for defamation.

    Wright was the senior Sunday Mirror journalist who was arrested for allegedly “harbouring” and interviewing soccer fan Pavlos Joseph after he wandered into the England team’s dressing room at the Cape Town Stadium and confronted the players after a match against Algeria.

    Wright was later released after paying a R750 fine for a minor immigration transgression – but not before public statements had been made about him by a range of South African office-bearers.

    Wright’s lawyer, Cape Town’s William Booth, said at the time: “Cele alleged that he (Wright) was involved in all kinds of illegal dealings and arranging for the World Cup authorities to be placed in a bad light as far as security was concerned, that there was conspiracy and all kinds of absurd, blatant lies.”

    Booth told the Cape Argus today he had served the Ministry of Police with a letter of demand on Wright’s behalf, asking for R50m because of Cele’s comments.

    Wright’s case is similar to Dewani’s: when Wright returned to England after the World Cup, he openly accused Cele of “lying” and “blackmail”, and of pronouncing him guilty prematurely.

    In a published account of his ordeal, Wright’s story bore the headline: “Justice in South Africa – it’s a sick joke.”

    The same accusations have been levelled at Cele by Dewani’s spokesman, PR doyen Max Clifford.

    Late last year, Cele, speaking about the Dewani case, said: “A monkey came all the way from London to have his wife killed here.”

    Clifford slammed the comments, saying Dewani had “more chance of walking on the moon” than of being fairly tried in South Africa.

    Dewani, 31, is accused of orchestrating the murder of his wife Anni, 28, in a hired shuttle while they were on their honeymoon in Cape Town in mid-November.

    The businessman was due to appear at the City of Westminster Magistrates’ Court today for a preliminary extradition hearing.

    Since the Dewani murder, Booth has gone on record speculating that Dewani’s lawyers would be likely to cite the Inge Lotz case and the failed prosecution of Glenn Agliotti in arguing that Dewani would not get a fair trial.

    “It’s been established in South Africa that there’s been manipulation of evidence – that goes to the heart not only of the police investigation, but of the prosecution,” Booth has told reporters.

    Another potential arrow in the defence’s quiver could be the state of South Africa’s prisons, an impeccable legal source told the Cape Argus last night.

    Here, again, Dewani’s defence team could be inadvertently assisted by another key South African legal figure – this time retired Judge Deon van Zyl. Not only was he critical of the police as he acquitted Lotz’s boyfriend, Fred van der Vyver, of murdering her, but he is now an inspecting judge of the country’s prisons.

    Last month, Judge Van Zyl warned of the number of awaiting-trial prisoners – people presumed innocent until proven guilty – who were being tortured and killed in police cells and prisons “at will”.

    The judge is quoted as saying in his report: “The conditions under which inmates are detained are shockingly inhumane and do not remotely comply with the requirements set forth in the constitution.”

    Sources said Dewani’s legal team could argue that their client should enjoy the guarantee of rights under the European Human Rights Commission, and that this would not be possible in a South African prison.

    And arguments about the integrity of South Africa’s judicial system could bring into play yet another South African, this time policeman Mike Barkhuizen.

    Sources said Barkhuizen, the lead investigator in the Dewani mattter, had been in London for at least a week working closely with British police and prosecutors and could be called as a witness to bolster the case for extradition.

    Barkhuizen has taken over the police docket of the Lotz murder, after the failed prosecution of Van der Vyver, but he was also involved in security for the World Cup, which Joseph happily breached, leading to the famous Wright interview.

    South African police national spokesman Sally de Beer has consistently said that the police would not comment on “everything his (Dewani’s) spin-doctors come up with”. Instead, she said: “Whatever evidence we have we will present in court.”

    Cele has in the past 48 hours promised that investigators would present a plausible motive as to why Dewani would allegedly have wanted to have his wife murdered – but has declined to divulge details.

    Since Anni Dewani’s body was found in their abandoned shuttle in Gugulethu on November 14, the couple’s driver, Zola Tongo, has been jailed for 18 years after confessing to having taken part in her murder. He named Dewani as the mastermind behind the killing.

    Two other men, Xolile Mngeni, 23, and Mziwamadoda Qwabe, 25, are due to appear before the Wynberg Regional Court on February 25 on charges of murder and kidnapping. Dewani was arrested at Southmead police station in Bristol on December 7 and is out on £250 000 (R2.8 million) bail. – Cape Argus

    More disturbing is this article just posted.

    Like

  109. @Lee @bluenose

    No, that is not the Shrien Dewani we know on Twitter – so no cutting and pasting. I am rather angry. I reread my text after it had been posted and I made so many mistakes…no disrespect intended..from my onwards I will check and recheck and I won’t type when I’m angry ! Lee, I’m not far behind yo – coffee, fags and tranqs right now. Cannot wait for the NPA’s statement later this evening.

    Like

  110. Tlati has released his statement

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/article862436.ece/Dewani-case-postponed

    Dewani case postponed
    Jan 20, 2011 1:23 PM | By Sapa
    The London hearing for the extradition of Shrien Dewani to South Africa for a murder trial was adjourned to February because he was ill, the City of Westminster Magistrate’s Court ruled on Thursday.
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    Shrien and Anni Dewani shortly before their ill-fated honeymoon trip to South Africa.
    Shrien and Anni Dewani shortly before their ill-fated honeymoon trip to South Africa.
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    * ‘Dewani too ill for London hearing’

    “We learnt from the legal representatives of Shrien Dewani that he is not medically fit to be in court today,” SA justice department spokesman Tlali Tlali told Sapa in a text message.

    “Our attitude towards this development is that it is the court that can excuse Mr Dewani from being in attendance, and for that reason we think it is best that the matter be placed on record in court for the court to give direction on.

    “They will probably have to produce a medical certificate to the effect that Shrien is not fit to be at the court,” said Tlali.

    The court heard he was suffering from “acute stress disorder”, according to tweets from reporters in the court.

    According to http://www.psychcentral.com, symptoms, which come about a month after a traumatic event, include severe anxiety, and dissociative symptoms such as a decrease in emotional responsiveness, inability to feel pleasure in previously enjoyable activities and feeling guilty about pursuing usual life tasks.

    Sufferers relive the event in their mind, battle to concentrate, feel detached from their bodies and have difficult recalling specific details of the event.

    The SABC reported the matter was postponed to February 8.

    Dewani is wanted in South Africa in connection with the murder of his wife Anni, while the newlyweds were on honeymoon in South Africa in November.

    Cape Town shuttle bus driver Zola Tongo was sentenced to 18 years in prison in South Africa after he submitted a plea agreement which implicated Dewani in an alleged R15,000 hit on Anni. He referred to her as a “client”, allegedly when arranging it.

    The couple had decided to visit a restaurant in Gugulethu outside Cape Town when they were hijacked, according to initial reports. Shrien was then thrown out of the window of the vehicle. Anni was later found dead in Khayelitsha.

    The director of a chain of British retirement homes returned to the UK soon after the murder. Speculation over his involvement has been rife.

    Dewani has engaged the services of Cape Town lawyer Taswell Papier, whose CV includes a stint at Harvard, pro-bono work in the Western Cape, and specialities in commercial, tax, fisheries and international law.

    As news broke that Dewani would not be present on Thursday, tweets began drawing comparisons between Dewani and Schabir Shaik.

    Shaik, President Jacob Zuma’s former financial adviser, was controversially released from incarceration on grounds of ill health following his 15-year sentence for fraud and corruption, relating to money he allegedly channelled from an arms deal company to Zuma.

    Two other people — Xolile Mnguni and Mziwamadoda Qwabe — are in custody in South Africa for their alleged roles in the murder.

    Like

  111. @ Duncanr 😆 Wil have to check with “Bolly” Barbie n revert on that 1.. hehe..
    Ag Shame @ ALEXIS.. Take it easy my love… thanks for all the links & postings and YES quite frustrating @ the way things turned out today BUT I just feel that SD is digging his own grave here…. Now do you think AFTER wasting the Court’s time etc & dragging this along , when he finally gets extradited, will SA even consider “concessions”???……
    I ask… HOW DOES THIS BEHAVIOUR PROVE TO THE WORLD THAT HE IS INNOCENT…??? #DUH#
    Gosh!!! …#sigh# Is Boswell Wilkie Circus in need of clowns???…lol
    Well looks like we gona be keep “tweeting” here until 8th FEB.. & further .. 🙂 >>> SO Congrats DUNCANR.. Looks like you have made a ludicrous …LOL!! …I mean lucrative blog here!!…. So guess I am now officially a “homie”…

    Like

    • @Lee

      Yes it appears from what I have read that SA might be prepared to consider. But if they allow him bail and he is a flight risk and with loads of money then why was Mrs Petersen (Taliep’s wife/widow who also planned the hit on Taliep) not allowed out on bail?

      I was having coffee upstairs and I also thought about Anni’s parents and Anni who I think of every single day. I hope that it’s just a rumor that Shrien told Anni’s dad about his sexual dysfunction………………… I’m also hoping that they DID NOT KNOW that there were problems from day 1.

      http://m.timeslive.co.za/?i=3692/0/0&artId=4137268&showonly=1

      17th January 2011 22:49

      The husband of slain honeymooner Anni Dewani might be prepared to return voluntarily to South Africa to stand trial, Britain”s Press Association has reported.

      Bristol businessman Shrien Dewani, who is accused of ordering his wife”s murder in Cape Town”s Gugulethu township last year, has so far resisted attempts to extradite him.

      Anni Dewani, 28, from Sweden, was shot when the taxi in which the couple were travelling was allegedly hijacked in the township on November 13.

      A friend of Shrien Dewani reportedly told BBC”s Inside Out West that the 31-year-old had not ruled out returning to South Africa to clear his name if “certain guarantees” were given.

      These included being given bail until to the point of final appeal, if bail were needed, and freedom of movement to enable him to build his defence.

      Hasmukh Velji Shah, said to be speaking with the permission of the Dewani family, said: “There are certain issues and questions and guarantees which must be answered and given, such as, if Shrien had to go to South Africa, would he be given bail?”

      He said it was for Shrien”s legal team and the South African authorities to discuss this and come to an agreement.

      Shah is believed to have met Dewani when he was a student and said he thought of him as a family member.

      He said that Dewani was confident that he could clear his name if he stood trial.

      Dewani, on bail and at home in Bristol, is due to appear at the City of Westminster Magistrate”s Court on Thursday for the next stage of the extradition process.

      Like

  112. All new ‘homies’ have to buy the first round 😀

    Like

  113. TO THE HINDOCHA FAMILY:-
    My HEART goes out to you even more today than ever before. May GOD grant you all the COURAGE to face & deal with this latest news.. May HE grant you the STRENGTH to face each new day … & may HE grant you the WISDOM to know that you should NEVER GIVE UP on what you believe in…PEACE BE WITH YOU ALL.
    Thats LEE signing out for the day…………… X

    Like

    • Remember….

      Don’t worry about the things you can’t control… Don’t worry about the things you can’t control… Don’t worry about the things you can’t control… Don’t worry about the things you can’t control… Don’t worry about the things you can’t control… Don’t worry about the things you can’t control… Don’t worry about the things you can’t control…

      Laters gal!

      Like

  114. WTF Judge Ousely….whose side are you on?

    Via CNN http://edition.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/20/uk.honeymoon.killing/

    Granting him bail in December, British Judge Duncan Ousely rejected concerns from the South African government that Dewani would use his funds and international connections to flee before an extradition hearing.

    Ben Watson, a lawyer for the South African government, cited hotel surveillance video that he said showed Dewani twice meeting with a cab driver as the sort of evidence indicating Dewani’s involvement in a plot against his wife.

    But Ousely ruled that Dewani, who did not attend the hearing, had a genuine interest in clearing his name and said he has cooperated with investigators from both England and South Africa.

    Dewani’s solicitor, Andrew Katzen, said he was “delighted” with the outcome but declined further comment following the court hearing.

    Like

  115. wriggling!!

    Like

  116. When you reread the Uncle’s interview below in the light of recent disclosures and Milo’s comments above it alll fits very nicely.

    “..deeply personal reasons…”; ‘…things weren’t right between the couple…’ etc…..

    http://news1.capitalbay.com/news/honeymoon_murder_i_wouldn_t.html?print

    Honeymoon murder: ‘I wouldn’t have left a dog to die like that,’ says Anni Dewani’s uncle
    Home | News Stories | Honeymoon murder: ‘I wouldn’t have left a dog to die like that,’ says Anni Dewani’s uncle
    Font size: Decrease font Enlarge font
    Published 09/01/2011 00:27:43 Dailymail

    By Ian Gallagher
    Last updated at 12:27 AM on 9th January 2011

    The uncle of murdered bride Anni Dewani has lambasted her husband for not doing enough to protect her on the night she was shot dead on honeymoon in Cape Town.

    ‘I wouldn’t have left my dog like that,’ said Ashok Hindocha. ‘I would never in my life have done that.’

    Mrs Dewani and her husband Shrien Dewani – who faces extradition over claims that he ordered the killing – were ambushed in a township near the city on November 13.
    Anni Dewani

    Questions: The uncle of Anni Dewani claimed ‘things weren’t right’ between the couple

    She was driven off by two gunmen who put a bullet through her neck after they forced her husband out of the car. But in an interview with The Mail on Sunday, Mr

    Hindocha poured scorn on 31-year-old Mr Dewani’s claim that he was pushed out of the rear window, and said he couldn’t understand why he ‘didn’t put up a fight’.

    Until now, none of Anni’s family has publicly outlined their concerns with such candour.

    Mr Hindocha speaks of the existence of text messages and letters which, he claims, demonstrate that his 28-year-old niece ‘wasn’t happy’ after the wedding and that ‘things weren’t right between the couple’.
    Ashok Hindocha

    Concerns: Ashok Hindocha, uncle of murdered bride Anni Dewani, said the couple had problems

    A message she sent a friend six days before she died said: ‘Crying has become my new hobby.’

    Mr Dewani, who is on £250,000 bail at home in Bristol, has insisted he and his wife were ‘blissfully happy’ and has dismissed as ‘ludicrous’ South African claims that he masterminded her murder. He says he is being smeared by a police force desperate to protect the tourist industry.

    Mr Hindocha – the brother of Anni’s father – reveals the rift that has developed between the two families; the ‘desperate’

    PR campaign conducted by the Dewanis; and the moment during his niece’s memorial service when he lost his temper and cried: ‘Please stop this torture.’

    Speaking from his home in Mariestad, Sweden, he said: ‘They were projecting photos from the wedding – pictures we hadn’t seen before – on to a big screen. Children were crying and shaking.

    ‘I was really annoyed and that’s when I shouted. They were torturing the children. My brother had an empty look and was walking around like a zombie. I told him, “Let’s go, let’s just go from here.” I was angry, I was really annoyed.’

    Mr Hindocha first became troubled a few days before his niece’s funeral. At that stage, Mr Dewani, a millionaire care-home boss, was a week away from being formally named as a suspect.

    Mr Hindocha said: ‘We went to Shrien’s house in Bristol because my brother’s wife wanted to see where Anni would have lived.

    ‘Everyone was sitting in the kitchen, ten or 15 people from both families, and Shrien addressed us for about half an hour, explaining for the first time what happened.

    ‘He told us he was thrown out of the window of the car. He could have struggled, he is not a small person – he is 6ft I think – and those guys weren’t big. He could have put up a fight. He had a chance.
    Shrien and Anni Dewani

    Picture of happiness: Newlyweds Shrien and Anni Dewani looked like the perfect couple

    ‘Anni is a strong girl. If Shrien had fought back she would have definitely got involved. She was very sporty – she played hockey at the highest level – and she would have defended herself bravely.

    ‘It is so simple. A beautiful girl like that, two men with a gun – you know what they are going to do to her. I would not even have allowed my dog to be left like that. I would fight for the dog.’

    Describing the early days of his niece’s relationship with Mr Dewani, Mr Hindocha said there were concerns in the family from the outset that he had a ‘broken engagement’ behind him.

    His first fiancee was Rani Kans-agra, 26, who lives in Middlesex. Mr Hindocha said: ‘Obviously we needed the reason for the break-up – which had been initiated by Shrien – and what we were told was that the families did not get along with each other.’
    Shrien Dewani

    Suspect: Shrien Dawani was arrested on suspicion of conspiring to murder his wife

    Anni’s family, who live in Sweden, did not see as much as they would have liked of their future son-in-law. Then, for deeply personal reasons, Anni broke off the relationship. According to her uncle, the split lasted around a month but the couple got back together again after Anni visited Shrien in London with her cousin.

    ‘Our family does not know him that well,’ said Mr Hindocha. ‘Obviously we checked out his family and we found nothing unusual. Our first priority was that he was educated and that he had a job and was doing well in his business. How well we didn’t care; that wasn’t important. It was Anni’s call.

    ‘If Anni liked him and wanted to go ahead with it, the family had no problem with it.’

    Evidently the wedding passed off well and both families were happy. But in the following days there was tension, according to Mr Hindocha, between the newlyweds.

    Speaking of the text message ­saying ‘crying is my new hobby’, he said: ‘That came after the wedding, a few days before they left for the honeymoon.

    ‘It was crystal-clear that she wasn’t happy, that things weren’t right between them. There are far more text messages and letters but I cannot go into this because it’s evidence.’

    Taxi driver Zola Tonga, 31, has already been jailed for 18 years after confessing to arranging the murder. But his sentence was reduced from 25 years after a plea bargain in which he alleged Mr Dewani asked him to hire the hitmen – a claim that is vehemently denied.

    The two alleged gunmen – Xolile Mnguni, 25, and Mziwamadoda Qwabe, 23 – are due to stand trial this year.

    Mr Hindocha also accused Mr Dewani’s family of using a fund set up in Anni’s memory for a ‘heartless’ PR stunt. ‘They are getting dirty,’ he said.

    Friends of Mr Dewani last week said his family hoped to help build a school in India with the donations.

    The appeal has so far raised £15,000. Mr Hindocha said that her family had not been consulted over plans to use the funds to help build a school.

    ‘This fund is for both families. We are disappointed nobody told us they were going public with this. We had not agreed the details or even knew of them,’ he said.

    A member of Mr Dewani’s family insisted the fund was not a PR stunt and said it had been supported by both families. He said the plan had always been for the money to go to a school in India, but it had only recently been made public.

    Max Clifford, the Dewani family’s spokesman, said the allegations against his client were ‘ludicrous’ and added: ‘It is sad that the uncle feels the way he does. But no one regrets what happened that night more than Shrien. He is having counselling three times a week and is still in a dreadful state.’

    A senior South African investigator, Lieutenant-Colonel Mike Barkhuizen, will fly to London tomorrow to meet Scotland Yard detectives preparing the case for Mr Dewani’s extradition.

    Like

  117. @All

    Just wanted to share this link with you all, I came across in the facebook page:

    http://why-we-are-white-refugees.blogspot.com/2010/12/radical-honesty-sa-open-letter-to.html

    Like

  118. @ Gayathri I agree that it may not be the best place for a trial if one is innocent. On the other hand some jails in western countries are too good for the truly guilty. One woman I know of .from my home area …just loved the being in jail in Canada for smuggling drugs. She had three square meals a day and watched a lot of TV and played basketball in a new facility….lol..
    Now…if Dewani is not guilty and he has to stay in one of those overcrowded prisons….that would be awful..

    However, so much is coming out now though about Shrien if it is to be believed. Why would anyone let their daughter marry someone who knowingly before marriage was aware that he had a sexual problem.and you have actually been told of it.Now that would be one huge red flag.Maybe you could answer that. I know that knowing that someone is of the same caste and having a good education and job is important for parents when considering a marriage for their children but would they not think that this too is important??

    How would you Indian fathers here on Madhatters feel about this ?

    As I said before, Dewani may have been stalling in his first relationship and with Anni. he got a few months of extended time…..to embark on a sexual relationship.He may have tried to buy extra time by saying “lets wait till we exchange rings and are truly married. He keeps saying that they planned the SA trip together.but remember the people they met on safari said that Anni mentioned that she only found out at the last minute.

    But there are supposed to be other texts and emails from Anni…that will be used as evidence….so the truth will come out..

    I know everyone was counting down till today about the extradition trial…but really people are you surprised that he dodged it by being indisposed???

    Like

    • @marji, We have a new open air prison in India in Chennai (Puzhal) that is too good, that we have heard that people love to be there.

      Regarding the sexual dysfunction or preference, I (like blunose) think nobody will tell their father-in-law about it. If he had told that to the father-in-law, why did Mr. Hindocha not stop the marriage? That is the most important factor in deciding whether or not you give your daughter’s hand in marriage, and he would have prevented the marriage at any cost. So, I do not believe The Sun.

      I am not at all surprised he did not turn up in court today. I was expecting it. These are some tactics lawyers use to buy additional time irrespective of whether their clients are innocent or guilty. Or may be he was really not in a good mental state to attend it, and his lawyers would have told him that it is not necessary for him to attend today. If it was mandatory that he had to attend today, and still he missed it, then it is contempt of court, and his lawyers would not want to deal with these additional hassles.

      I am surprised at some comments saying SA should retaliate by postponing the hearing of the carjackers. I was initially surprised at why it was not held earlier but postponed to as late as Feb 23. If Tongo’s plea bargain was fast tracked, so could the carjackers hearing. That was one reason why I suspected some foul play from the side of SAPS / NPA / court. Also I am surprised Tongo having implicated four more in the plea bargain, was sentenced without hearing the versions of the others. Is that how it is done in South African Law?

      Like

  119. @Gayathri

    Many thanks for the link to a white supremacist website – I see that you are still desperate to convince us all by any means necessary. Well at least you’re consistent.

    What is your opinion on Shriens erectile dysfunction – you must be gutted?

    Like

  120. @Marji

    • I find it inconceivable that both families would know about his ‘problem’ but in the unlikely event that they did I cannot imagine Anni’s family would have allowed the marriage to go ahead – in our culture you get married to have children. 

    It is my belief that he has used his ‘problem’ as a smokescreen to cover for his homosexuality.

    • I also find it inconceivable that they waited until their marriage to consummate their relationship. They dated for 18 months and spent alternate weekends together – wasn’t he tempted? She was gorgeous…

    And no, I don’t think anyone was surprised by his no-show today! It was as predictable as night following day. 

    Like

    • My question to the South Africans: I heard that the lead detective in the case, Lt.-Col. Mike Barkhuizen, is a very reputed detective. Bheki Cele has already pronounced Dewani guilty. If Mike Barkhuizen, after following all leads, finds Shrien Dewani innocent, does he have the power to put it forth, overriding Cele?

      Like

  121. @bluenose
    If you are not interested you cannot be tempted. Now since your culture promotes chastity before marriage…openly given up by most western cultures since the late 1960s …one could hide behind this until the wedding….showing respect for the girl etc etc…I have known christian couples, christian with a big C, spend time together like this , but wait for the wedding day,

    I find it odd too that Anni’s father would if being told of it, would consent to the marriage. What is quoted though in a newspaper is that they broke up for a month, so her uncle says,for deeply personal reasons.

    I still find that they were supposedly looking at photos taken when they were on safari in the back seat as odd. I asked this before and no one has answered…Was the camera listed as one of the stolen items?

    Like

    • @marji, Shrien Dewani had reported to the police about the stolen camera, his Rolex watch, his mobile phone and money somewhere around R4000 – 5000. Only items stolen from Anni were mentioned in the plea bargain, and these items stolen from Shrien were not mentioned.

      Like

  122. @GAYATHRI – WHITE REFUGEE WEBSITE is another reactionary right wing website.
    You really dont have to believe everything you read about South Africa.
    Just as I told you Paul Hoffman is an idiot, an opposition MP confirmed this by exposing for being 1 man with a fax.

    Why did Shrien give the police the wrong Black Berry pin code? These are not the actions of an honest man.
    Especially since the pretence of giving them his Black Berry codes was evidence towards granting him bail.
    His blackberry was stolen , but the police found it and they found Annis.

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  123. @Gayathri

    Not sure about SA law but it is worth bearing in mind that Tongo CONFESSED the others have not. This may explain the so-called ‘fast-tracking’.

    I seem to recall you being concerned at the speed of the extradition proceedings a couple of weeks ago by writing ‘why are they rushing’. Now your concerned that people are calling for the postponement of the other two suspects trail in SA. Double standards Gayathri?

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  124. @SHRIEN SUPPORTERS

    I know you want to prove south africa is a criminal state that wants shrien to save its tourism.
    but really promoting racist right wing hate websites is just getting tiring.
    there are many racist reactionary people in south africa who use the internet as a platform to spread hate, especially to spread hate amongst whites.
    There are many problems in south africa, but please stop promoting our neo-Nazis just to prove a point about shrien.
    really, im getting tired.
    if you cant read white extremism then really… welll… i guess the desperation to prove that africa is backward explains why people would believe the websites of crazy nutjobs who use their fears (which we all share) to promote hatred in a country thats trying to build unity in difficult circumstances.

    Like

    • @blunose, I was only bothered about the timing. I felt that the carjackers hearing was timed so that it happens after Dewani’s extradition hearing for some reason. As it appears now, both the hearings will drag on and on.

      @Solly, I seriously do not understand the racism or racist thoughts of other people. I have already told that I am not biased for or against any race. I believe in equality. I just posted the link to get everybody’s comments on that. From your comments, I now know that its motivation is racism and not exactly fair trial for Dewani.

      But, my question is: if Mike Barkhuizen finds Shrien Dewani innocent at the end of his investigation, will he be able to go against Bheki Cele and state that? Would Bheki Cele allow that?

      Like

  125. @GAYATHRI

    Ok true, if you dont live in a place then its hard to know how to judge information provided on it on the internet.
    A better bet would be to read some books and academic articles and a range of media sources.
    That is what I have argued throughout our exchanges – you dont know south africa, you’re going on image of dark continent and Max Clifford.
    Ok Shrien may be innocent, but no need to take the propaganda machine of a pr person so wholeheartedly.

    – Cele is not the only cop convinced Shrien did it. That is why they are arresting him!
    That’s what cops do and that is why they dont get to judge.
    Cops can say – I believe this person did it on the basis of the evidence i am gathering but it is up to a court to find him guilty.
    It HAPPENS EVERYWHERE.
    Cops usually crack cases based on very strong suspicions which allow them to follow the suspect they believe did it.
    They dont follow random people on the basis of random evidence.
    That is why cops also say they are disappointed when judges acquit people that they as cops believed were guilty.

    HELLO- This is the role of separation of powers. They guy who arrests you cannot judge you or prosecute you because they are probably convinced of your guilt by virtue of stockpiling evidence against you.

    Am I missing something here???? Am I living in ‘Shrien must be treated differently world’?
    Who is Shrien Dewani to be treated differently from other suspects?? Im just baffled by the exceptionalism that this man seems to be pleading for!!

    – The detective does not JUDGE Dewani, he presents evidence, and it may or may not be strong.
    The prosecutors do the work of putting the evidence in front of the courts.
    There is a strict separation of prosecutors and police.
    The judge makes the decision.

    – You’re dismissive of the professional credentials of a cop who also has the support of scotland yard in questioning the rent boy.

    It appears the rent boy story is true. all those of us who suspected this was a gay man even BEFORE rent boys were revealed were probably right.

    SOME ‘FACTS’ AS PER INTERNET (I dont know shrien, this is internet speculation)
    – He apparently may have lied about BBerry pin number.
    – He apparently may have lied about sex with rent boy.

    Hmmm – he may not be a murderer, but he is sure bad at looking innocent.

    Like

  126. Check our how the U.S. Attorney General operates.
    These people pursue people they believe to be guilty and they can pursue them for years!!
    In the Jo Yeates case, the landlord was arrested as a matter of routine questioning.
    The cops didnt find strong evidence so they let him go.
    So they do not believe he did it. Hello – they have basically decided he is most likely innocent.
    If they thought he did it, they’d have charged him.
    S.A. Cops wanted shrien back so they could charge him based on the evidence that tells them that “this monkey came all the way from england to kill his wife”

    Rude choice of words – BUT ITS THE WAY COPS DEAL WITH ALL CASES….
    If Cele had said”we have strong reasons to suspect he did it.”
    How would that differ from what ANY COPS say anywhere in the world.
    Thats why the are fking charging him.
    They didnt just want to question him, they CHARGED HIM SO THEY DO BELIEVE HE DID IT.
    HELLLLLOOOO CAN ANYONE START LIVING IN REALITY AND NOT MAX CLIFFRAUD’S ‘SHRIEN IS EXCEPTIONAL’ media circus….

    $##$#$%$#% i am so sick of this Max Cliffraud PR that people are buying.

    Cops dont normally charge people they believe are innocent. DUH!!!!

    Like

  127. Oh Boy, my email account is bombarded with notifications from this site, looks like people not been sleeping since last night.

    Him not attending the court today, I could see this coming miles away.
    this guy already fooled some that he’s off his head by walking with ‘barbie dolls’, Doctors can only go by his words when he claims he’s stressed. this guy is cleaver, he will drag this court case until god knows how long. He’s hoping that with time, people will get over this until something else takes media’s attention away – from him and his obsession with Dolls.

    I recon, His next move is to take 3 pills of Paracetamol and claim he tried to commit suicide, coz hes too stressed to deal with everything (anything for sympathy). next thing is he will go to his Temple and gain the trust and donate shit loads of cash to Hindu-charity, to gain the respect again, so they can protest for his innocence.

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  128. Clifford seems a tad confused about the different roles of the courts and the police.
    http://tinyurl.com/4wc5q98.
    Somebody please explain this to him – it is for the courts to assume SD innocent until proven guilty. The police, on the other hand, are supposed to believe a defendant to be guilty. That’s their job: Find out who they think dunnit, and prove their case, in court, “beyond reasonable doubt”. Does Clifford really expect the police to bring charges against someone whom they believe to be innocent? What are they supposed to say? “Erm.. yes your honour, we firmly believe the defendant to be innocent of all the charges we have brought against him. We expect these charges will improve SA’s international reputation and encourage more tourists to visit SA…” ????

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  129. @ ALLESKLAR THANK YOU

    My point exactly! When the cops requested his arrest so they could bring charges against Shrien and Cele called him a monkey, it was because they believed he did it.
    Before they brought charges against him, they had some suspicions, but took time to follow them through.
    By the time Cele spoke, they were ready to charge him.
    Hence the cops arrested him in the UK and Ben Watson argued AGAINST bail.
    If Shrien had been in SA when arrested and Cele said it more politely “We arrested him because we have reason to believe he came all theway from england to kill his wife.” Then would there be an uproar?

    This whole Max Cliffraud things is fucking farce. Someone has been murdered, the husband, not surprisingly is a prime suspect, evidence has been gathered, a man must face a court, of course it is scary, he pleads innocence and his family is supporting him, rightly so.

    So why the fuck is Max Clifford allowed to be leading the debate on this, leading people into fantasies about how things actually work in real life?

    Cops RELEASE people they believe are innocent, they do not CHARGE them.

    Once they are charged, it is NOT UP TO COPS to PROSECUTE SINCE THEY ARRESTED HIM ON THE BASIS OF BELIEVING IN THEIR GUILT.

    I’m not a lawyer, I dont know how cirminal law works, but at a general common sense level, COPS DONT CHARGE SOMEONE JUST BECAUSE THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT OF EVIDENCE.

    Cops use a little evidence to arrest and question. But if the evidence doesnt weigh up, they move on.
    Once you are charged with murder, ITS BECAUSE THEY DO FUCKING THINK YOU DID IT.

    GROW UP MAX CLIFFRAUD – IMAGINE THIS WAS YOUR DAUGHTER.
    And please SHRIEN’S FAMILY – SPEAK FOR YOUR SON YOURSELVES, You have allowed a stupid idiot to turn your family name into a joke at a very serious and trying time for your family.
    Shrien is just another person whom the cops believed committed a grave crime, but Annis family dont want a joke of a situation here, no sane person does.

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  130. Solly:

    “@GAYATHRI – WHITE REFUGEE WEBSITE is another reactionary right wing website.
    You really dont have to believe everything you read about South Africa.”

    Strange behaviour for a ‘right winger’….????

    “As a rule-of-law political activist, I endorse the rule-of-law for all, rich, poor, white, black, left and right, religious or atheist. I filed my submission to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission on 18 January 1999, wherein I detailed my willingness to donate my entire inheritance to facilitate sincere Truth and Forgiveness. I am separated (filed for divorce) from African-American Demian Emile Johnson, who is, and has been, incarcerated in California Dept. of Corrections, for the entire duration of our marriage . In addition to Radical Honesty I have been involved in non-violent civil disobedience actions on behalf of my former husband , Greenpeace , Amnesty Int’l, Pacific Inst. for Criminal Justice , Jericho 98 , Crack the CIA ,……”

    Or maybe you suffer from the Primacy Effect cognitive bias?

    You think someone who should only stand up for justice on behalf of anyone who is not white? But soon as they also stand up for justice for someone who is white.. now they are a right winger???

    how does that work?

    Above is the excerpt from:

    Amicus Applic. to Dewani’s Judge: SA is a criminal mafia parasite state: Descartian Jurisprudence does not exist in ‘Rainbow Hypocrisy SA’

    London, UK (19-Jan-2011): An Application was filed with the City of Westminster Magistrates Court late yesterday, by a South African citizen in support of Dewani’s case to oppose his extradition to South Africa.”

    http://why-we-are-white-refugees.blogspot.com/2011/01/amicus-to-dewanis-judge-sa-is-criminal.html

    Like

  131. @ALL

    I visted the facebook page and my ‘off the scene’ linguistic observation was debated.
    I am quite confident – as a speak of at least four black languages plus english and afrikaans – that it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY that a Xhosa man of Transkei origin used the term “off the scene” in relation to an alleged hit as ‘broken english’ or because he is a 2nd language speaker.

    The cadence of black usage of the english language just does not work like that.

    That is black south africans say things like ‘that is why’ ( 🙂 ), ‘of which’, ‘whereby’.

    Of course THIS DOES NOT PRECLUDE THE POSSIBILITY THAT TONGO HEARD THIS IN A MOVIE.

    But it is not an indigenous phrasing of english amogst blacks.

    It jumped out at me first time i read the sheet. And I thought- Tongo must be watching lots of mafia movies…

    Like

  132. This is a generational issue.

    An Older Xhosa man who is likely mission educated MAY VERY WELL HAVE USED SUCH A TERM

    Tongo is 30, his education likely very poor.

    He may have heard the term from an older mission educated Transkeian. I dont want to say it was definitely what Shrien said, I cannot prove that Tongo is not a liar.
    He could have STOPPED ANNIs murder but didnt. So I DONT Trust tongo wholely.

    Like

  133. @WILD BILL HICKOCK

    Your disagreement with me is noted. I will not engage.
    I am focussing on Anni’s death.

    Like

  134. @WILD BILL HICKOCK

    Plus you seem to assumed all kinds of things about my racial politics based on YOUR IMAGINATION not on anything I’ve said.
    I’ll leave it there.

    Like

  135. Solly,

    In that case, please explain what you meant when you said….

    —————————- quote ———————–
    I know you want to prove south africa is a criminal state that wants shrien to save its tourism.
    but really promoting racist right wing hate websites is just getting tiring.
    there are many racist reactionary people in south africa who use the internet as a platform to spread hate, especially to spread hate amongst whites.
    There are many problems in south africa, but please stop promoting our neo-Nazis just to prove a point about shrien.
    really, im getting tired.
    if you cant read white extremism then really… welll… i guess the desperation to prove that africa is backward explains why people would believe the websites of crazy nutjobs who use their fears (which we all share) to promote hatred in a country thats trying to build unity in difficult circumstances.
    ——————- end quote ———————-

    racist right wing hate websites… ??
    Neo Nazi’s…???
    white extremism????
    crazy nutjobs?????

    what did your ‘racial politics’ mean when you said above???

    Like

  136. @WILD BILL HICKOCK

    I think that you’ve taken Solly’s remarks out of context.

    If you look back at the hundreds of comments between Solly & Gayathri you will notice that their exchanges have diplomatically accussed each other of being contradictory, biased and selective on their online sources. 

    It is only proper that you give him the benefit of doubt and don’t use his comments in isolation.  

    Like

  137. @blunose
    I dont think Annis father or senior family knew about his problems…I dont think his problem is ”erectile dysfunction” either..its something different…as ED can be remedied …

    @Shivani

    It suited Shrien well to go this way………He couldnt function…so best to explain it differently…….though he did tell Anni it had been sorted by hormone treatment (which was untrue)
    @LEE
    And agree about the “wait after marriage”.. Don’t buy it either….
    NOW @ MILO .. I ask.. is this saving face .. OR HIDING FACE???.. lol…..

    Shrien did not expect it to go the way it has………..and to a question about honeymoon destination……….Anni was not aware of the destination …until her mother in law told her two/three days before…

    @Gayathri
    @blunose, I was only bothered about the timing. I felt that the carjackers hearing was timed so that it happens after Dewani’s extradition hearing for some reason. As it appears now, both the hearings will drag on and on.

    I cannot see the trial of the other two accused taking place without Shrien being charged as well as it would give his defence team an unfair advantage as they would undoubtedly use any information at hand to defend him …..

    It will not surprise me at all if on 8th feb new tactics are used to delay matters further……….

    Like

  138. Something clicked when I was reading the facts of this case, so I went online looking for descriptions of the psychopathic personality, and yes, the profile fits.
    1. charming and “normal” on the outside, a merciless bully to his intimates- his wife was obviously in utter misery in the relationship
    2. complete lack of empathy- his failure to give comfort to her heartbroken parents
    3. a convincing liar- his successful posing as a travel agent with important clients
    4. grandiose gestures- the lavish engagement hooha at the Ritz
    5. incapacity for love

    Like

  139. @ ALL

    Can’t say i am surprised about the “can’t come to school today sick-note” story, but am surprised at only “acute stress disorder” and only “adjustment disorder with depressed mood” are supposed to have been offered to the court.

    I would have thought that what this person is alleged to be going through would have meant more severe diagnoses – like full blown post-traumatic stress disorder and major depressive episode at the least??!?!?

    Perhaps those might warrant in-patient admission rather than home stay care, and it would probably be negligent of any treating personnel to diagnose PTSD and Major Depressive Episode and also let someone stay at home when things are that bad. So these are essentially softer diagnoses when practitioners want to keep a patient at home.

    Neither are reasons for being allegedly so debilitated – whereas post-traumatic stress disorder and major depressive episode are associated with higher levels of functional impairment. But then as said the person should be in hospital if its that bad.

    Neither acute stress nor adjustment disorder diagnosis would make it impossible to advise ones friends, family, attorneys etc. Insight and judgement are not compromised in acute stress and adjustment conditions.

    Neither diagnosis involves the criteria of feeling suicidal. Major depression usually includes some suicidal ideation, whereas adjustment disorder with depressed mood definitively does not.

    While technically PTSD can only be diagnosed once the acute version has been going on for some time (2 months), some diagnosticians use it when they assess that the trauma presentation is not that severe or they want to go the softer route for other reasons.

    So i dont see anyone escalating the diagnoses as that would automatically mean the person should be hospitalized.

    On the Facebook page – What Really Happened, “Malingering” is mentioned – that might be more fitting, which is often associated with forensic contexts.

    As a complete outside chance, sometimes perpetrators of murder crimes do get shocked by their own actions and develop post-traumatic flashbacks – so it is worth thinking about that too.

    Anyhow full formal psychiatric assessments – as opposed to sick-notes, usually involve what is called a GAF assessment – Global Assessment of Functioning. And when there is a discrepancy between the patient’s level of self-stated debilitation and diagnosis, other factors are looked to such as personality disorders/resources, contextual social factors, etc.

    All personality disorders have one thing in common – failure to take responsibility for ones own actions and playing of the blame game, especially narcissistic, anti-social and borderline personality disorders (cluster B, the erratic impulsive cluster).

    Another thing i wonder about – do people who run care homes know how to sedate people? how else does one get restless old people to settle at night and shut up ? (SA paramedic said she looked like she had been drugged) and don’t they have oodles of experience dealing with undertakers and lots of know-how about the process of repatriation of mortal remains,even across international borders?

    This clutching at psychiatric straws has got to stop in the UK. A woman died on South African soil, and her family – who come across as the most decent people on earth – are in mourning and need resolution.

    Like

  140. @ “Homiez”…
    If you guys recall, Anni’s Dad said that he met Shrien ONLY TWICE prior to the wedding & did not know him well… NOW why or HOW would Shrien then confide in him about his sexual problems.. I think this does not make sense…
    Mr Vinod Hindocha is a caring, loving man, which was quite evident during Tongo’s trial 😦 & am sure that 1 cannot assume that he would have spoken to ANNI to “understand” the situation & go ahead with the marriage.. If at all he sensed she was unhappy…???
    AND what is more important @ this crucial stage .. the TRUTH about Anni’s murder OR suing Cele??… Hmmmmmmmmm…
    Beat around the bush.. do everything else.. delay … get stressed out .. everything else EXCEPT co-operate with SAPS (as promised when they allowed you to go back to UK) .. just proves how much SD really loved his wife!!… Hmmmm
    If SD has all this stress B$ .. can he even begin to imagine the stress Anni would have felt being driven around ALONE by these hijackers AFTER they THREW HIM/PUSHED HIM out of the Sharan… ???

    Like

  141. @Lee

    I’ll send some links later on. Cele is being sued by the reporter re the World Cup case. I do not recall Cele saying anything because I thought “Bloody stupid reporter, how could he do that!” Security was tight at all stadiums and I only recall 4 incidents, camera &? stolen from reporter, paris hilton and buddies caught smoking grass or something and then a cleaner stole some money from a hotel room which a south american team left there (foolishly) and then the reporter who managed to get into a change room where players were. William Booth if I recall represented him but a settlement was reached. Will send links later. What annoys me is that Shrien has now played his games THRICE…THRICE….THRICE… I flipping stressed , as are Anni’s family and friends, Lee, others….

    Like

    • @Sam Phillips – thanks for the link re legal situation.

      I wish to comment re the “Monkey” comment. I know Indians who regularly use the word “monkey” both in a GOOD and a BAD way. e.g. A friend says regarding his own daughter things like “I bet that monkey will be late” . He does not say this with malice or hate ; indeed I would say (oddly) that in an affectionate way. I think far TOO MUCH had been made of Mr Cele’s off the cuff comment – where no malice was intended. I suspect many Africans use the “monkey” word in ordinary language – mostly where no offence is either intended or taken.

      Any Africans care to comment?

      Like

  142. @ Alexis.. Thanks… Mwahz!!.. Wil await those links with much interest!!… I am aware of that reporter suing Cele.. BUT I may be mistaken here, BUT I am sure that I understood last nite from reports that SD will also be suing Cele , using that reporter incident as an example of how “unfair & prejudiced” SA can be.. ?? AM I WRONG HERE.. Someone please confirm/ set da record straight for me.. MANY THANX.

    Like

  143. P/S @ Alexis.. A thought about the Paris Hilton weed saga…HERE’S just another incident where high profile/rich people from abroad come to SA with disregard/disrespect for SA law & think they can have their own way here OBVIOUSLY underestimating the power of SA Authorities and thinking they will never get caught… Here I also commend SA for not stooping to “bribery” as many would have hoped they would.. Her money didn’t save her the embarassment of the media coverage either.. and SA set down the rule & gave her so many days to LEAVE SA.. so you see.. They could have just let this incident be and swept it under the carpet TO SAVE THE TOURIST INDUSTRY…???… But they DID NOT!!!!!…
    so like duh??.. That was PARIS HILTON>>>> So like Shrien Dewani???… like #duh#.. WHO DAT???….

    Like

  144. @ lee and Alexis – I feel you. Yes, uncle dewani is playing games – it’s called Monkey trouble. What really gets to me is that this narcissistic, spoilt, cheap, lying, psychopathic coward is using every trick in the book to get off scot-free.

    I know this was discussed ad naseum already but i need to vent a little. This was not a spur of the moment murder, nor was it an impulsive decision. He planned this to a tee. He knew of SA’s hijacking modus operandi (Dr Pox), he knew that he could run back to UK and employ PR guru Max Clifford to trash SA (McKanns), he knew of the crime rate (big hooha prior to World Cup), he knew of the mistakes of the SAPS (Inga Lotz). That is why he chose SA. He did everything he could to ensure that this wedding and subsequent honeymoon would not put him out of pocket – hell he probably got a discount at the Ritz as well! He booked the wedding as a convention – discount rates and then used the money given by Anni’s father to cover all the expenses. He posed as a travel agent to get discounted rates at the safari lodge. He used cheap hitmen to murder his wife. He gets refund on her ticket.

    I’d bet that on that safari, he was hoping she would be mauled by a lion or something – he probably spent the entire time there plotting how to get her alone and in the path of an elephant or rhino. And it is still my belief that he was THERE when the gunmen pulled the trigger. That he watched as she died. there has been no time of death reported and he would have wanted to make sure that they did the job and that she KNEW it was him.

    He thought that the SAPS were a bunch of bumbling idiots. He didn’t count on them actually solving the murder so quickly. he thought he could play the grieving widow, get back on a plane to the UK, the police still chasing their tails trying to solve the murder (like Dr Pox) and he would be scot free. When that backfired, this jerk high tails back to UK and employs ‘THE MAN” and then starts on his plan b – pretending to be a nutjob. Yes, he probably was diagnosed by one of the psychiatrist of his elderly care homes, prescribed meds by his brother, the pharmacist and given legal loophole advice by his father, the magistrate.

    And for wot? because he is gay/has erectile dysfunction and she found out? Really. A beautiful young woman in the prime of her life had to be murder because he couldn’t get it up? Because he was a closet gay? Because she was going to expose him? So screw that her family has been robbed of their daughter, she of her life – as long as he can hold onto his KEN doll (i seriously doubt that he would be walking with a barbie unless he wishes he was one), he can avoid trial, he can move on with his life.

    see, I told you he was Bug Bunny – he has gone looney tunes!

    Argh, I see RED whenever i think of how she suffered all because she unknowingly fell in love with murderous cowardly twat.

    Like

    • @Sheeda – you say “And it is still my belief that he was THERE when the gunmen pulled the trigger. That he watched as she died. there has been no time of death reported and he would have wanted to make sure that they did the job and that she KNEW it was him. ”

      I never thought of it being that way…but now you say it…I can see it being within the realms of possibility. May be this explains the still clean suit & NO injury ? It is frightening even to think of it. I feel even now for Ani.

      Like

  145. @Lee – As I said thrice he has agreed/said he’d return and then he changed his mind. Shrien Dewani is playing games… “Yes, I will return” then “No, I won’t/No, I’ll / he’ll fight the extradition” … Again, he is a liar, coward, crook, a con, a fake, an actor but a lousy one. I hate his games and I’m sick of them.

    http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/dewani-wants-to-clear-his-name-1.1013288

    http://www.citizen.co.za/citizen/content/en/citizen/local-news?oid=165272&sn=Det

    http://news1.capitalbay.com/news/honeymoon_murder_shrien_dewani_may.html

    http://www.ewn.co.za/articleprog.aspx?id=54637

    http://www.mg.co.za/article/2010-12-08-dewani-welcomes-chance-to-clear-his-name/

    http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/dewani-never-wants-to-return-to-cape-town-1.894590

    http://www.witness.co.za/index.php?showcontent&global%5B_id%5D=52048

    Shortly after the November 13 murder, Cele said Dewani had gone home to the UK “with the full understanding that everyone will be available for further investigations and everyone will co-operate”.

    Like

  146. @ Sheeda .. YEP!! Definitely Looney & I was rite too that this whole saga was about the “CARROT”…
    Ya eish!!!!!!.. Words start to fail me now when I think about this SD dude!!… I would think that a beggar from the street would have more morals than he does… AAAARGH…!!.. #Disgusted#….
    Our local Newspaper (THE POST) yesterday featured pics of this BEAUTY and my, o my, even some of the Bollywood actresses have NOTHING on her…..

    Like

  147. @WILD BILL HITCHKOCK – I cant engage much, I’m on this forum to talk about Anni.
    I’ll just say that – You stated that my comments came from something to do with a white person protecting or speaking out about white people.
    You’re assuming that is the basis for my criticism of the website.
    That is not.
    I hope that satisfies some of your assumptions. I stand on the point that it is a racist website that is using legitimate fears of white south africans that they actually share with most South Africans to spread anxiety about the condition of white people in South Africa and it denies the violence that is so widespread as to be low level warfare in a transforming society – ask the children of the Cape and black lesbians, women dwelling in shacks and slums who are prime targets of horrendous violence.
    The person behind that website who pretends to be liberal is a nutjob in my opinion but this is not the forum I will use to advance arguments about these kinds of white South African websites.

    Gayathri can believe what she wants; however thus far, our exchanges have had integrity, although we both lose it now and again out of frustration.
    I know you may want a debate or more satisfactory responses or something more detailed.
    I acknowledge that but as I said I’m sorry, I’m focussing on info as far it relates to Anni. So this is my last post on the issue.

    Like

  148. @ lee. we are not alone……Read this article. Sums up my erratic posting above quite nicely.

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/opinion/article863396.ece/Making-sense-of-our-senseless-violence

    Like

  149. @duncanr “What’s the problem with the latest links I sent?” You allowed the links to the World Cup 2010….??

    Like

  150. yay Sheeda!!! u summed up this whole mess so well! SD is fking low life, madar:-) they should lock him up in a room full of barbie dolls for the rest of his life, with only weekly visits by MC.

    Like

  151. @ Alexis its ok.. don’t worry about it.. 🙂
    @ Sheeda.. THANX for the link.. RATHER interesting & hits the nail on the head .. Practically takes my thoughts EXACTLY outa my head..
    We are not even related to ANNI yet this incident is bothering & torturing our souls…. Can you even imagine what her poor family are enduring right now???.. Her uncle has mentioned that her dad is a boken man & may not be able to continue working… How sad is that???…….! YET.. SD clearly has the strength to hire MC , play insane n blah blah.. “I HAVE BEEN ROBBED OF THE REST OF MY LIFE”.. were his words to the media.. I mean come on!!… look @ what is happening to the people around you & how THEY are affected by all of this ESP the Hindochas… 😦 …. How selfish, unsympathetic and low can 1 stoop to avoid “justice”…?? I hope that all those people involved in financing his businesses etc read about the fraud stunt he pulled with the Safari Lodge.. I hope they back away before they get scammed too.. #angry# …I hope also that this Lodge plan on suing his a$$ too.. Like how he claimed a refund on Anni’s ticket.. THEY should claim the correct AMOUNT DUE for misrepresenting himself… EVEN if he tries to “get away” from this whole case with his insanity issues et al I hope the rest of his life on Earth is racked with misery!!!!

    Like

    • @Lee

      The moderator has allowed the links to be posted (the yes, no, yes, no, yes, maybe ones)….see post at 8:15am. If you read those articles and after that you are not suffering from some form of stress, even I would be surprised. It makes me wanna flip!

      Like

  152. NO!!! @ Sheeda… WHAT R U THINKING??… The German rent boy will be a “luxury” to him.. Just what he probably wishes for.. And I am beginning to think that Barbie Dolls are even too good for this creep!!.. I mean sweet little girls play with Barbies.. This SD here… ai… I say throw him in that Lion Den , the 1 he riduculed ANNI for when she was taking pics of them..

    Like

  153. @Lee – sorry suffering from Acute Stress Disorder

    Like

    • @Julie, I see your point, I tried adding 2 and it’s waiting. It’s now 3:11pm SA time and I’m leaving at 4:30pm so here are the links one at a time.

      @Julie – Thanks. I had to read some of those links this morning. I am having a bad day. I am so angry that I’m going to take a tranq now. I saw some pics earlier of Anni’s family /relatives leaving court yesterday and they appeared so cool, calm and collected. They usually are very reserved. I found another link earlier … It is now 3:07pm in SA. Here is the link to the pics:

      http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/muIgOReFxa5/Family+Attend+Court+Shrien+Dewani+Fight+Against

      Like

  154. Alexis – WordPress automatically holds back any posting with more than one link in it – we as admin of this site do not hold back any posts.

    Like

    • @Julie – Thanks. I had to read some of those links this morning. I am having a bad day. I am so angry that I’m going to take a tranq now. I saw some pics earlier of Anni’s family /relatives leaving court yesterday and they appeared so cool, calm and collected. They usually are very reserved. I found another link earlier … It is now 3:07pm in SA. Here is the link to the pics:

      http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/muIgOReFxa5/Family+Attend+Court+Shrien+Dewani+Fight+Against

      http://www.iol.co.za/news/dewani-s-bail-plan-1.1015226

      Dewani’s bail ‘plan’

      January 21 2011 at 02:29pm
      IOL pic dec14 shrien dewani court

      Reuters

      As the battle to have honeymoon murder accused Shrien Dewani face charges in South Africa kicked off, an apparent strategy to grant him bail in South Africa was building. Photo: Reuters

      As the battle to have honeymoon murder accused Shrien Dewani face charges in South Africa kicked off, an apparent strategy to grant him bail in South Africa was building.

      A psychiatrist has found Dewani to be suffering from “acute stress disorder” and “oppressive adjustment disorder”, reasons which were put before the court why he could not appear yesterday.

      Once the court proceedings were over, grim-faced friends and family of Shrien and his slain wife Anni were photographed exiting the court.

      The postponement comes as celebrity publicist Max Clifford, who was appointed by Dewani shortly before he was named as a suspect in the murder of his wife, has fed the local media a steady stream of testimonies confirming his client’s failing health.

      Commentators in London suggest this is part of a ploy to ensure Dewani gets bail if his extradition to South Africa is successful.

      With South Africa’s extradition arrangement with the UK falling among a small group of privileged countries who are not required to provide prima facie evidence for the order to be granted, Dewani’s defence team face an uphill battle to keep him in the UK.

      Newspapers in Dewani’s hometown of Bristol say they are on suicide watch, and all confirm he is losing weight. One newspaper quoted a family friend as saying Dewani “looked like a zombie” when visited two weeks ago.

      Dewani is living under curfew at his family’s lavish Westbury-on-Trym, Bristol, home.

      From early morning yesterday, throngs of British media were at the Westminster courthouse, all eager to catch a glimpse of those involved in a case that has captured the world’s attention.

      Many journalists in the packed galleries surrounding the combatants at the centre of the courtroom eagerly scanned the room for a glimpse of investigator Mike Barkhuizen, who has been in England since last week to cement the “watertight” case the National Prosecuting Authority (NPA) is promising against Dewani. His surname proved a tongue twister for many.

      Others sought out Dewani’s South African attorney, Taswell Papier – pronounced in court with a distinct French accent.

      Dewani is accused of orchestrating a fake hijacking in Gugulethu, Cape Town, which led to the murder of his wife.

      An affidavit submitted to the Westminster court by the NPA says he is wanted in South Africa to face charges of murder, kidnapping, robbery with aggravated circumstances and obstructing the course of justice.

      The proceedings yesterday were to ensure the necessary technical requirements were met, which included a certificate from the British secretary of state, who had received the extradition application by South African authorities.

      During the hearing, Ben Watson, for the South African authorities, said that following a psychiatric report, Dewani was judged unfit to attend court and was excused by the presiding officer.

      With the next hearing on February 8 expected to be a further “jumping through hoops” as the technical details concerning the extradition are placed before the court, Dewani’s attorney, Julian Knowles, yesterday offered to present a further psychological evaluation 48 hours before the start of proceedings in the event that his client was too ill to be present.

      Knowles said that in light of his condition, there “may be difficulties” taking instructions from his client. The presiding officer indicated that proceedings would continue even if Dewani was absent.

      Dewani’s bail and the conditions set have been extended.

      Like

  155. @ Sheeda.. glad this ASD hasn’t affected yr sense of humour 😆

    Like

  156. Dewani’s bail ‘plan’

    January 21 2011 at 02:29pm
    IOL pic dec14 shrien dewani court

    Reuters

    As the battle to have honeymoon murder accused Shrien Dewani face charges in South Africa kicked off, an apparent strategy to grant him bail in South Africa was building. Photo: Reuters

    As the battle to have honeymoon murder accused Shrien Dewani face charges in South Africa kicked off, an apparent strategy to grant him bail in South Africa was building.

    A psychiatrist has found Dewani to be suffering from “acute stress disorder” and “oppressive adjustment disorder”, reasons which were put before the court why he could not appear yesterday.

    Once the court proceedings were over, grim-faced friends and family of Shrien and his slain wife Anni were photographed exiting the court.

    The postponement comes as celebrity publicist Max Clifford, who was appointed by Dewani shortly before he was named as a suspect in the murder of his wife, has fed the local media a steady stream of testimonies confirming his client’s failing health.

    Commentators in London suggest this is part of a ploy to ensure Dewani gets bail if his extradition to South Africa is successful.

    With South Africa’s extradition arrangement with the UK falling among a small group of privileged countries who are not required to provide prima facie evidence for the order to be granted, Dewani’s defence team face an uphill battle to keep him in the UK.

    Newspapers in Dewani’s hometown of Bristol say they are on suicide watch, and all confirm he is losing weight. One newspaper quoted a family friend as saying Dewani “looked like a zombie” when visited two weeks ago.

    Dewani is living under curfew at his family’s lavish Westbury-on-Trym, Bristol, home.

    From early morning yesterday, throngs of British media were at the Westminster courthouse, all eager to catch a glimpse of those involved in a case that has captured the world’s attention.

    Many journalists in the packed galleries surrounding the combatants at the centre of the courtroom eagerly scanned the room for a glimpse of investigator Mike Barkhuizen, who has been in England since last week to cement the “watertight” case the National Prosecuting Authority (NPA) is promising against Dewani. His surname proved a tongue twister for many.

    Others sought out Dewani’s South African attorney, Taswell Papier – pronounced in court with a distinct French accent.

    Dewani is accused of orchestrating a fake hijacking in Gugulethu, Cape Town, which led to the murder of his wife.

    An affidavit submitted to the Westminster court by the NPA says he is wanted in South Africa to face charges of murder, kidnapping, robbery with aggravated circumstances and obstructing the course of justice.

    The proceedings yesterday were to ensure the necessary technical requirements were met, which included a certificate from the British secretary of state, who had received the extradition application by South African authorities.

    During the hearing, Ben Watson, for the South African authorities, said that following a psychiatric report, Dewani was judged unfit to attend court and was excused by the presiding officer.

    With the next hearing on February 8 expected to be a further “jumping through hoops” as the technical details concerning the extradition are placed before the court, Dewani’s attorney, Julian Knowles, yesterday offered to present a further psychological evaluation 48 hours before the start of proceedings in the event that his client was too ill to be present.

    Knowles said that in light of his condition, there “may be difficulties” taking instructions from his client. The presiding officer indicated that proceedings would continue even if Dewani was absent.

    Dewani’s bail and the conditions set have been extended.

    Like

  157. Sorry Alexis – hold on, I’ll log in and release your post 😀

    Like

  158. @ Alexis.. THANX.. will try to check on the weekend if i have time or else Mon Morn..
    4 now LEE signing out….
    TO ALL MY HOMIEZ .. (NO!! Shrien.. I didn’t say HOMOS).. as I was saying.. TO ALL MY HOMIEZ.. may you have a BLESSED WEEKEND. :)…………………. X
    Don’t worry about the things you can’t control….. Don’t worry about the things you can’t control.. Don’t……………………

    Like

  159. bye lee! have a good one

    Like

  160. Bye Lee, have a lovely weekend!

    Like

  161. A question for the ladies…

    I know this is a big leap of faith on my part but give yesterdays revelation that Shrien had a ‘problem’ I’m really curious how would Anni have taken a request by Shrien to consummate their marriage the ‘traditional’ way.

    • Shouldn’t her alarm bells have started ringing at such a request especially in these so-called ‘modern times’? 

    • What about her self-esteem or confidence? I mean the guy she is dating/fallen in love with doesn’t find her sexually desirable?

    • Or conversely would she be flattered that he has so much  respect for her chastity and admires his virtuosity and resolve which, in her eyes, makes him more of a ‘man’? 

    I hope this post doesn’t come across as chauvinist. The BBC programme emphasised that they ‘fell in love’. To me, a intimate physical relationship is part & parcel of ‘falling in love’.

    I accept that they could have both agreed to wait and also ‘waiting’ is by no means exclusive to Hindus and is practiced across the cultural/religious spectrum but nonetheless I would appreciate an alternative angle on this because I just don’t get it…. 

    Like

    • @blunose
      Though I have been in a similar situation, I cannot / won’t discuss it here. Use Google, you’ll find all your answers there. Leave religion out of the search string ….

      Like

  162. @Alexis

    Cheers! I’ll do that…. The Qs were a bit ‘below the belt’ (excuse the pun!). Like everyone else I’m trying to make sense of this whole thing & whenever there is a new revelation instead of clarifying things it just opens up a whole new can of worms. I don’t think we’ll ever get to the bottom of this one – the only person that could have set the record straight is dead. Poor Anni

    Like

  163. @ bluenose
    I have often said that we women are programed to be foolish in regard to men. What is that old adage. Women hope that men will change and men hope that women will never change. lol
    Regardless of our different cultural backgrounds women place a lot of importance in getting married/or at least finding a partner as the biological clock starts to tick in our heads after 25. Anni was 28 which is not young when one thinks of having children before 35. She was introduced and invested time with this man. To start again would mean another year to find another and then another to foster a relationship. Shrien looked good at the outset. He had a good education and was financially secure ..two of the many important qualities that traditionally women look for when they are looking for a mate and a prospective father of their children.
    Anni however at 28 was still young enough not to have the life experience to cause serious warning bells to ring. Even if she had a niggling doubt she might have just brushed it aside making excuses as most of us do. She may not have taken as seriously as she should a possible situation where a man rather than a woman, was promoting chastity before marriage and may actually be operating under a different agenda.
    Remember though times have changed radically women often get caught up in the idea of marriage, weddings etc.In the year or so of preparation for the big event, the bride to be is the centre of attention as she flits from event to event staged in her honour. There has been many a bride who after all this wakes up in her first year of marriage and says….now what?. These days they can leave or at least threaten to leave…and that might have been Anni’s downfall..

    Like

  164. Marji,

    You are describing ignorant, pathetically insecure women. I don’t disagree they exist, and are by and large the majority masses… which no doubt explains a world of unwanted children bred purely because women can’t keep their legs crossed, and isntead pop out unwanted and hated babies by the millions, while they themselves are still emotional and psychological children…

    But most ignorant men are only looking for a brood sow anyway… so, they suit each other in that respect…

    It is quite clear Anni was not in any way self-confident and psychologically secure in herself; to the contrary, she was incredibly insecure. Perhaps if she had spent some time finding herself and getting to know herself, instead of searching for a large wallet to marry herself off to, she would still be alive?

    Like

  165. One thing to me is clear having followed this case from the beginning, Shrien Dewani is gay. An observation I have made through his body language tells me this chap is camp. I only had to look at one or two footages of him to figure out he is gay. If I’m wrong then I’m the biggest idiot in the world!

    Like

  166. @ Wild Bill.

    I find your comments extremely crass and disrespectful. Do you know the victim? Do you know anything about the true nature of thie relationship beyond the superficialities and distortions that we come across in the newspapers? Even if you did know Anni, did you know her well? If not you are in absolutely no position to make these comments, and the fact you are doing so merely reflects the depth of your own ignorance.

    Like

  167. None of you knew the victim. None of you know the husband now facing charges. 3000 carjackings have taken place in SA since this woman was murdered. She would still be alive today if she had not come to South Africa. You are all victims of a media feeding frenzy and I hope your ancestors did not die in their millions so that a man could be tried and condemned on the basis of gossip and rumour posted by a handful of anonymous people on discussion boards.

    Like

    • You know,Sol,

      If I actually gave a toss about this whole business, I may be tempted to break the habit of the last few months and comment on proceedings by saying that your comment represents the most common sense that I’ve read in these pages since it all kicked off.

      Cheers.

      Like

  168. @Sol & NobblySan

    Worth bearing in mind that this ‘media feeding frenzy’ was initiated by husband…

    But having made your poignant points what do you suggest should happen now? To this thread? The media? The accussed?

    And if you really are that disinterested why are you voyeuristically following ‘the handful of anonymous people’ (‘the victims of media feeding frenzy’) on this board? Evidently you’re not as aloof as you claim to be and hypocritically you’re posting on the very board (anonymously!) that you are condeming!

    Hmmmm! Please explain….

    Like

  169. @Wild Bill

    ‘….large wallet to marry herself off to, she would still be alive?’

    Your probably right

    Like

  170. Hi blunose,

    I’m not following this case, or the content of the comments on this blog – voyeuristically or otherwise. To me this is just another sad murder – nothing more, nothing less.

    Unfortunately, I have to get involved at times, to approve comments in moderation, or, as recently, slap a few wrists when we administrators felt that the good-natured spirit of our blog was being undermined by a couple of self-righteous toerags.

    I genuinely wish all of you avid followers well, but must confess to being somewhat bemused at the amount of interest that Duncan’s series of posts has generated. The MH is an open house, and we do welcome all here (within certain limits….).

    Just for the record, and from what I have seen on here and in the general media (which isn’t much in the more reputable media), my thoughts on the case are:-

    Dewani is involved in this up to his neck.
    Clifford is a fool – albeit a better paid and thicker skinned one than I will ever be.
    Dewani will probably not be extradited, on the grounds that he cannot expect to receive a fair trial – the CofP (Cele?) has made sure of that with his ridiculously unprofessional comments.

    I’ll now leave it to you guys who are so very much more interested in it than I am.

    Happy speculating.

    Like

  171. He’s stressed? Everyone, guilty or innocent, who’s being investigated for murder would suffer from stress.

    Does that mean nobody charged with murder can be tried?????

    Like

  172. @Nobbly

    Well, thanks for sharing your views all the same.

    In response to your bewilderment at the level of interest, I suggest that the following factors may have contributed to it:

    1. Anni was a very beautiful girl.
    2. Shrien is a rich young man who appeared to have it all.
    3. The death that he is alleged to have orchestrated for Anni involves high levels of both deceit and cruelty.
    4. The story is played out in an exotic setting.
    5. Dewani’s hiring Clifford has generated huge interest.
    6. The allegations that Dewani slept with a rent boy are inevitably of interest. Sex sells.
    7. The stakes are high. If found guilty Dewani faces a long, long time in some very tough prisons.

    Apart from these points, I too am astonished that this case has been of the slightest interest to anybody!

    Like

  173. @NobblySan
    (Ref: NobblySan – Much Ado About Bugger All)

    Like

  174. @NobblySan January 22, 2011 at 10:51 am
    http://tinyurl.com/66p9soe

    Like

    • Ah!

      …. and that was enough to scare people off? Blimey!

      FYI – that was a bit of personal ongoing banter between Peter and myself regarding how the ‘recent comments’ field gets swamped by comments on the Dewani posts; I never for a minute intended or expected it to have such a profound effect.
      Re-reading it now, though, I can understand that people may have construed it as an invitation to clear off and take their comments elsewhere.

      As you have gathered, I couldn’t care less about the Dewani story, but I am genuinely upset if my smartarse one-liner has prevented people from carrying on their debate on this blog. I have a right to my opinion, but don’t have the right to let my opinion dictate the attitude and presence of others.
      At the end of the day, this is open space and within certain socially acceptable limits and generally unwritten house rules, people can say what they like about whatever topics the authors choose to put up for discussion.

      If I have compromised that, then I apologise to the contributors, my co-administrators and particularly to Duncan, who is the mainstay and driving force behind the MadHatters.

      No offence meant….genuinely!

      Like

      • Bloody Hell Nobbles …. leave you alone for 5 minutes and you’re scaring everyone away!!!!

        But seriously (yes I KNOW I’m not supposed to start a sentence with BUT … told you I almost failed English!!), to all the other contributors….. I’ve known Nobbles for a few years now, and that comment of his was NOT intended to chase anyone away …. he is well known for his smart-arsed one liners that people take the wrong way! He’s actually a great guy, and I think he feels pretty bad right now! (Yes Nobbles, I’m trying to score a case of Hunters here)!

        So EVERYONE ….. COME BACK PLEASE …. 😀

        Like

  175. @NobblySan
    Oooops!
    BION I only posted that ref to get “dewani” back on the recent comments list where Peter Reynolds will see it, (ditto this 🙂

    Like

  176. 😆 Allesklar … the proud new owner of the MadHatters Wooden Spoon Award is ….. 😉

    Like

  177. I DISGAREE that Anni maried Shrien cos of the “large wallet”.. Anni’s family seem to hold their own even meeting Shrien’s family with the request that he made re Wedding costs etc.. I do not think that she would have married for money.. Afterall she was a successful model, who had a good job with a reputable Co & travelled bak n forth to UK , which shows she was a INDEPENDENT LASS…On the other hand , Shrien , altho owning such a huge family Co etc.. STILL faked a web/mail addy for a LOUSY DISCOUNT, Bargained even when exchanging money etc.. what a cheapskate!!… Was it Shrien who married ANNI for what she was worth OR Anni marrying for his “large wallet”.. I BEG TO DIFFER!!

    Like

  178. If everyone thought BEFORE they spoke.. the SILENCE would be deafening…
    HAPPY THINKING @ ALL>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 😆

    Like

  179. Hey Lee – whazzup? apparently i am not thinking…..i’m sinking lol

    http://beta.mnet.co.za/carteblanche/Article.aspx?Id=4257&ShowId=1

    to those who have not been to Cape Town South Africa – perfect footage of the area where the murder occured, footage of the beach they “walked on”, the road and township where they were “hijacked”. Will give you a better sense of why we Souf Effrkens find it so amazing that Anni wanted to go to Gugulethu at all.

    Two part story btw. both available via link. SA investigative programme.

    Like

  180. Lifesaver Sheeda… Mwaahz!!…. (GOSH!!.. did u hear that pin drop??.. hehe)..
    Almost thought MADHATTERS gonna rename to TITANIC….. 😆
    THANX for the link gf.. & oh yes I am still amazed why ANNI would want to visit GUGS at that hour of nite..

    Like

  181. @Sheeda…thanks for the link but it doesnt work…any idea how it might work ?…thanks

    Like

  182. @Sheeda..yes that bit works…it takes me to the site but the video there does not work…..all i can see is part 1 and part 2 with pictures of shrien and anni …but the video will not play…

    Like

    • sorry Milo- didn’t know that! I think it requires javascript or flashplayer in order to view. note i said think….not an I.T. boffin! 🙂

      Like

  183. @sheeda…thanks..i think it may be disabled for use outside certain territories…as none of the links to their videos work….i tried depsperate housewives videos and they dont work either…yes i have flash player….will keep tinkering with them and maybe get it to work…thanks anyways

    Like

    • @milo and co

      Can you read a flv file…as in the ones grabbed from youtube? I have grabbed it, it’s 18MB.

      Like

    • @Milo, Sheeda & Co
      If you go to the gmail account (bjvalerts) I created for Google alerts….do you recall? Password is trickypassword. You can open and play or do whatever you normally do to playback the flv files, e.g. Winamp

      Like

  184. http://why-we-are-white-refugees.blogspot.com/2011/01/uk-ind-party-ukip-request-to-city-of.html

    Tuesday, January 25, 2011
    UK Ind. Party (UKIP) Request to City of Westminster Clerk of Court; RE: Dewani Amicus Curiae Application

    Andrea Muhrrteyn
    Why We Are White Refugees

    Nigel Farage, UKIP MEP in the European Parliament, for South East Region requested City of Westminster Magistrates Court to please provide the courts response to the Amicus Curiae Application filed by Lara Johnstone in RSA v. Shrien Dewani.

    Mr. Farage believes that any applicant who files a legal application to the clerk of the court, should receive a written answer, even if such an application is unusual; and that he trusts that the court shall ‘issue the requisite notice of a decision, without further delay.’

    The UK Independence Party (UKIP) are a libertarian party seeking Britain’s withdrawal from the European Union.

    Johnstone filed an Application to Proceed as an Amicus Curiae in the Republic of South Africa (RSA) vs. Shrien Dewani Extradition matter (PDF), with the City of Westminster Magistrates Court Clerk of the Court, on 18 January, two days before the recent 20 January preliminary hearing.

    Volkstaat Secession; or Jus Sanguinis EU Citizenship

    Lara Johnstone is a direct descendant of United Kingdom citizen: JOHNSTONE, James Augustus who was born circa 1810 in Edinburgh (Dumpfries), Scotland, and was an 1820 settler to Port Elizabeth. His Jus Sanguinis (Right of Blood) descendant, Lara Johnstone is one of the Jus Sanguinis Boer Volkstaat 10/31/16 Theses Founding Petitioners, who filed a written petition and briefing paper appeal to their Progenitor/Stamvader nations (UK, Netherlands, France, Germany and Switzerland) for Political and Legal Recognition for a Boer Volkstaat in South Africa; or in the absence thereof, for Jus Sanguinis citizenship from their respective progenitor European nations.

    The General Secretariat Parliamentary Services Office of Hansheiri Inderkum, President of Switzerland’s Council of States requested that a Printed Hardcopy of Boer Volkstaat Theses Petition, be submitted to the Swiss Embassy in Pretoria, who would forward it to the Committee for Legal Affairs of the Swiss Parliaments, for their consideration. The hardcopy petition and briefing paper is currently being processed for printing, and shall be delivered to all Jus Sanguinis Progenitor Nations, including NATO: Military Committee.

    Complaint to Court Manager

    When Johnstone received no status update from the Clerk to confirm whether the Clerk submitted her Application to Chief Magistrate Howard Riddle, and if not, why not; she filed a complaint with the City of Westminster Magistrates Court, Court Manager:

    Request for Clarification in Accordance with HMCS Leaflet EX343

    My apologies to bother. Her Majesty’s Court Service Leaflet EX343 provides guidance which explains what to do if you when administrative or procedural issues of misunderstanding or irregularities occur in any court matter. It recommends first contacting the relevant court Manager.

    Please find below (and attached) the Application to Proceed as an Amicus Curiae, in the matter of Republic of South Africa (RSA) vs. Shrien Dewani, which I submitted to the City of Westminster Clerk of the Court / and to Mr. Russel Sykes (Case 1004020346), on January 18, 2011 5:41 PM.

    I am struggling to receive any response from the Clerk / Mr. Sykes, as to what the status of my application is. Mr. Sykes initially responded to provide me with the Case Number; but I have not had any acknowledgement of receipt or status update regarding the application.

    Please could you ask the Clerk or relevant person to provide me with a status update regarding the application I submitted. Has it been submitted to Chief Magistrate Howard Riddle? If not, will it? If not, why not?

    The complaint was acknowledged as received and read, by the Clerk of the Court, but as of date, no further answers or response of any status update, or written notice has been provided, by the Court Manager.

    Complaint to Home Secretary

    Johnstone then wrote letters to (i) Ms. Theresa May, Home Secretary of the United Kingdom; (ii) Rt. Hon. Michael Meacher, Former U.K. Minister of Environment 2001-2003, House of Commons; and (iii) Justice: CEO Roger Smith:

    Dear Ms. Home Secretary,

    RE: Request Clarification of Status of Application to Proceed as an Amicus Curiae filed with the City of Westminster Magistrates Court; in RSA vs Dewani (Case 1004020346)

    My apologies to bother. As per documentation below and attached, I am struggling to get the City of Westminster Magistrates’ Court to provide me with an update on the status of the Application I filed to Proceed as an Amicus Curiae in aforementioned matter, in which your office, is a party.

    Would you be so kind as to request the Court to provide me with an update as to the status of my application.

    The Home Secretary acknowledged receipt, but no further response was received. Justice acknowledged receipt, but declined to request the Clerk of the Court to provide a written response status update to Johnstone’s application.

    UK Independence Party Policy on Extradition from UK

    Johnstone then wrote to the UKIP, who had supported Mr. Julian Assange’s position, that the UK courts need to be provided with prima facie evidence, before any extradition can be agreed to, from British soil.

    Assange up against entire EU system, Wednesday, 12th January 2011, UKIP:

    Gerard Batten MEP meets with human rights campaigner Bianca Jagger outside the court

    UKIP’s Justice Spokesman and European Arrest Warrant campaigner Gerard Batten was at the extradition hearing of Wikileaks founder Julian Assange, in London yesterday.

    After the hearing, Mr Batten said: As I explained to the gathered representatives of the media, it is no longer called extradition but ‘Judicial Surrender’, as designated by the European Union.

    “The doctrine of the ‘mutual recognition’ of EU judicial systems means that they are all considered equally valid and no prima facie evidence is required to be considered by the court convened to grant judicial surrender – indeed it has no right to consider the evidence.

    “This is the problem that Mr Assange and his lawyers are up against. Irrespective of his guilt or innocence of these allegations the British court has no right to consider if there is sufficient evidence against him to justify judicial surrender.

    “I did several interviews with the foreign media but as usual the British media (e.g. BBC) are simply not interested in talking about the real problem with the European Arrest Warrant – i.e. that it throws our tradition and hard won legal safeguards against unjust arrest and imprisonment out of the window.”

    Request to UK Independence Party

    Nigel Farage, South East Region, UKIP MEP in European Parliament

    Johnstone wrote to Nigel Farage, UKIP MEP in the European Parliament, for South East Region

    Dear Mr. Farage,

    RE: Request to City of Westminster Clerk of Court to provide Clarification of Status of my Application to Proceed as an Amicus Curiae filed with the City of Westminster Magistrates Court; in RSA vs Dewani (Case 1004020346)

    My apologies to bother. As per documentation below and attached, I am struggling to get the City of Westminster Magistrates’ Court to provide me with an update on the status of the Application I filed to Proceed as an Amicus Curiae in aforementioned matter.

    The Amicus Application Argument supports Mr. Dewani’s case that the Extradition request of South Africa should be denied.

    The relief to be requested:

    Private Prosecution of Mr. Dewani in UK Courts, with Impartial, Competent British Judge and British Jury, is the only means Hindocha & Dewani families will receive a free and fair trial, to determine Mr. Dewani’s guilt or innocence based on Descartian worldview concepts of evidence.

    Argument: Descartian Jurisprudence does not exist in ‘Rainbow Hypocrisy SA’

    1. Ubuntu Legal Heuristic Application of ‘Free & Fair Trial’, not same as Descartian EU
    2. Descartian Reality in South Africa: ANC and Anti-Apartheid Movement committed Truth & Reconciliation (TRC) Fraud
    3. Systemic Ubuntufied Criminal & Political Corruption of Criminal Justice System
    4. Motive: Negligence; or Malice?: Dunning & Kruger Effect; or Pathological Fraudsters?

    Would you/UKIP be so kind as to monitor my request to the Court and the Home Secretary to provide me with an update as to the status of my application?

    Nigel Farage, UKIP MEP in the European Parliament, for South East Region letter of request to City of Westminster Magistrates Court: Clerk of the Court: Mr. Russel Sykes

    Disclosure: Andrea Muhrrteyn is the White Refugee blogger nom de plume for Lara Johnstone, of Radical Honesty SA

    Related:

    * Amicus Applic. to Dewani’s Judge: SA is a criminal mafia parasite state
    * Radical Honesty SA Questions to V&A Waterfront: ‘Public Relations Censorship & Deception’ of Crime in SA, by SA Media
    * Swiss President Requests Printed Hardcopy of Boer Volkstaat Theses Petition
    * Radical Honesty SA Open Letter to Dewani and Hindocha families: Shrien Dewani has zero% chance of fair trial in South Africa
    * Radical Honesty SA – scientific journalism request to Redress Information and Analysis/Christopher King: Is Julian Assange Europe’s Nelson Mandela?

    Posted by Andrea Muhrrteyn at 1/25/2011 12:42:00 PM
    Email This BlogThis! Share to Twitter Share to Facebook Share to Google Buzz
    Labels: * Boer Volkstaat, * Crime, * Media Censorship, * Radical Honesty, * Radical Honesty Dewani Amicus

    Like

  185. Will Justice be Prevailed for Anni Hindocha???

    1.http://www.newscollective.com/blog/?p=3287

    2.http://www.gopetition.com/petition/41710.html

    Lets show the world that justice cannot be supressed…

    Like

  186. SA citizen challenges Dewani extradition

    A South African woman, who lodged an appeal against Dewani’s extradition with the Westminster Magistrate’s Court, claims that SA’s legal system is corrupt

    http://london.thesouthafrican.com/news/SA-citizen-challenges-Dewani-extradition

    Like

    • @Wild Bill

      No, she is not lodging an appeal….

      “Amicus Curiae, which translates as Friend Of The Court, refers to someone, unconnected to a case, who volunteers information to a court for a matter before it. It is filed in the form of an affidavit, and can be put to a court by any citizen or organisation at any time, even if they have no previous involvement in a case. Johnstone filed her application as a private citizen.”

      Give her wings ! I won’t even bother to respond as I have made it abundantly clear that he will get a fair trial in SA.

      Like

  187. @ Alexis – your link makes me wonder.. Who do these Brits think they are when visiting SA.. The King.. The Queen.. The girl in question is no Royalty.. What is the big deal of someone skipping the queue @ McDonald’s.. Happens ALL THE TIME..I just laugh it off thinking.. GOSH THIS PERSON IS DEFINITELY MORE HUNGRY THAN ME.. But look @ the way this GIRL handled the situation..
    Do all Brits behave this way??… What wld happen if she just let it be.. Would she die of starvation??…!!
    Now I know whats gonna happen…. PPL are gonna overlook HER behaviour & start condemning “SA TAXI DRIVERS”.. like comeonnnnnnnnnn.. A girl went off the rail here .. For perhaps a VALUE MEAL???…
    SD’s supporters likewise are in denial & do not wana admit his behaviour is irrational.. RATHER just blame it on the “CORRUPT SA JUIDICIAL SYSTEM”…
    I wish ppl cld wake up & SEE WHAT IS EXACTLY IN FRONT OF THEM!!!

    Like

  188. @Lee

    Her dad was the brother of the late Lady / Princess Di. I must admit I don’t follow the Dewani stories anymore but I read that he has 10Kgs (Why could it not have been me!!!!!) and won’t be appearing in court…but I guess he still reports to the cop shop at night to sign the register – strong enough to do that! Last night Etv’s 3rdDegree program dealt with this story but I watched the Egyptian protests on Aljazeera instead.

    Like

  189. @ Alexis .. Yeh.. that makes her the NEICE of the l8 Princess Di.. NOT THE PRINCESS herself… I do not think that even the LATE Princess would ever have behaved that way.. She had too much class in her.
    Heard about that 3rd Degree coverage myself this morning from colleagues & they were quite surprised I missed it cos likewise I too am not ffg EVERY other story anymore…lol
    The reporting to the cop shop story everyday was the same “line” i put fwd to my colleague this morning.. If he is fit enough for that then……. ????.. I gues ALEXIS we on the same wavelength here>>> as they say GR8 MINDS…Take care swty…………… ****SHOUT-OUT >>> @ SHEEDA!!****

    Like

  190. QWABE BAIL HEARING TODAY – IN PROGESS AGAIN

    6 minutes ago · View Feedback (1)Hide Feedback (1)

    Anni Dewani – What Really Happened so far:
    1. Qwabe pleads not guilty, wants bail to be with his children, says he has an alibi and witness. says police beat him in November at time of arrest.

    2. Prosecution says they have his confession, and it matches the details given indep…endently by Robert Tongo. Police also have a witness to place Qwabe at the scene – the friend who gave him a lift there. Qwabe refuses to answer questions related to the merits of the case against him.

    3. The investigating officers report and Qwabe’s confession are read out in Court. it says Mngeni pulled the trigger to shoot Anni.

    Like

  191. http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/how-anni-was-shot-1.1020735

    How Anni was shot

    February 3 2011 at 07:38am
    By Caryn Dolley
    murder accused

    CAPE TIMES

    Mziwamadoda Qwabe, one of two suspected hitmen in the Anni Dewani murder case, sits in the dock in the Wynberg Regional Court as his attorney Thabo Nogemane briefs him. Qwabe is trying to apply for bail and has pleaded not guilty to charges relating to the murder. Photo: Tracey Adams

    Anni Dewani murder accused Mziwamadoda Qwabe was driving a taxi he “hijacked” when he heard a single gunshot coming from the back. He got scared and stopped the vehicle.

    When he turned around he saw Dewani had been shot , Xolile Mngeni, his accomplice, was looking for the bullet casing. Qwabe found the casing and, as he and Mngeni were running away through Khayelitsha, he threw it into a drain. This is what happened on the night Dewani was killed, according to an affidavit by the case’s investigating officer Paul Hendrikse.

    The affidavit, providing the most detailed account yet of Dewani’s last moments, was read out on Wednesday when Qwabe appeared in the Wynberg Regional Court for a bail application. He said in court he intended to plead not guilty to the five charges he faces.

    But the affidavit then painted a very different picture. Hendrikse said the information he had gathered corroborated the information Zola Robert Tongo, who drove the Dewanis around while they were in Cape Town, revealed during his plea and sentencing agreement about two months ago.

    Tongo, who has since been sentenced to 18 years in jail for his role in the murder, was so far the only person who appeared to have had direct dealings with Shrien Dewani, suspected of masterminding his wife’s murder on November 13 in Gugulethu.

    Qwabe’s appearance yesterday comes six days ahead of UK court proceedings relating to Shrien Dewani’s extradition to South Africa.

    Hendrikse’s affidavit said Qwabe was arrested on November 18. Later that day he confessed to a police officer.

    Hendrikse said Qwabe admitted that the day before Dewani’s murder another suspect in the case, Monde Mbolombo, contacted him.

    Mbolombo told Qwabe that Tongo would call him about a job. Tongo called Qwabe and the two, as well as the fourth local suspect, Mngeni, met in Khayelitsha. “Tongo told Qwabe that he would bring a couple into the township and that the husband wanted the wife killed, and that they had to make it look like a hijacking and robbery,” Hendrikse’s affidavit detailing Qwabe’s confession read.

    It said Tongo had explained to Qwabe and Mngeni what route he would take and said he would call them when he left the Cape Grace Hotel with the Dewanis. But he had called later than expected and when Qwabe and Mngeni got to Gugulethu, Tongo was already on the way to Somerset West with the Dewanis.

    According to Hendrikse, Qwabe confessed that Tongo had told him Dewani “wanted the job done that same evening”. Qwabe and Mngeni returned to Khayelitsha and Tongo then called Qwabe saying he and the Dewanis were at a restaurant. According to Hendrikse, at about 11pm Tongo sent Qwabe an SMS saying he was driving the Dewanis into Gugulethu.

    Qwabe and Mngeni, who had a firearm, then “hijacked” Tongo’s taxi at the pre-arranged spot. While Qwabe drove, Mngeni sat in the front passenger seat.

    The affidavit said Qwabe confessed that before he let Tongo out of the vehicle, he had told them the R15 000 Dewani had promised for the hit was behind the front passenger seat. Qwabe and Mngeni then drove to Kuyasa in Khayelitsha where they let Shrien Dewani out of the vehicle.

    “While (Qwabe was driving) he heard a single shot… He got scared and nervous and parked the vehicle… He got out and saw Mngeni looking for the bullet shell and… (Qwabe)found the casing and threw it in a drain while they were running away,” the affidavit read.

    It said Mngeni had given Qwabe the firearm on November 14, the day the abandoned taxi with Dewani’s body on the backseat was discovered.

    Hendrikse’s affidavit said a day after his arrest, Qwabe pointed out where the hijacking took place, where Tongo and Dewani were dropped off and where the vehicle was abandoned. Qwabe had also pointed out where he had thrown the bullet casing and a police officer had found it.

    It said Qwabe told police what he had done with the murder weapon and affidavits from two people, who had kept the firearm for him and who were now State witnesses, had been obtained. The recovered firearm and cartridge had been linked to Dewani’s murder through ballistic examination. Hendrikse said it appeared there was little difference between Qwabe’s confession and information contained in Tongo’s plea and sentencing agreement.

    Hendrikse’s affidavit on Wednesday revealed details about Mbolombo, the only suspect in the case whose whereabouts police are yet to divulge.

    It said Mbolombo confirmed that Tongo approached him on November 12 “looking for a hitman” and saying “there was a guy who wanted his wife murdered”.

    Hendrikse said Mbolombo had given Tongo Qwabe’s cellphone number. The affidavit said two witnesses had seen Mngeni, Tongo and Qwabe together in Tongo’s car outside Mngeni’s house hours before Dewani was killed.

    “A further witness will testify that he gave Qwabe and a person introduced as Wati a lift on November 13 at approximately 10pm from Khayelitsha to… Gugulethu, and that Qwabe told him they were going to meet friends who were driving from Somerset West,” his affidavit said. “Telephone records also confirm the contact between Tongo, Mbolombo and Qwabe.”

    Hendrikse’s affidavit said Mngeni was arrested two days after Dewani’s murder as fingerprints lifted from the hijacked vehicle matched his. “At the time of his arrest he was found in possession of Tongo’s phone.”

    Hendrikse said the next day Mngeni confessed to his role in the murder and Mngeni’s aunt found items stolen from Dewani hidden in his room. “Mngeni also admitted that he had sold (Anni Dewani’s) Blackberry… to a schoolteacher. The teacher has confirmed in an affidavit that Mngeni sold the telephone to her,” the affidavit said.

    It emerged Qwabe had previously been arrested on an attempted murder charge.

    The charge was provisionally withdrawn on March 23 last year.

    Qwabe pleaded not guilty to charges of murder, robbery with aggravated circumstances, kidnapping, the illegal possession of a firearm and the illegal possession of ammunition.

    Mngeni and Qwabe are expected to appear in court together on February 25.

    caryn.dolley@inl.co.za – Cape Times

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  192. Aren’t South Africans wonderful people?? So kind, considerate, accommodating etc….. *#$&*Q@#$&k

    http://mg.co.za/article/2011-02-07-dewani-hearing-likely-to-be-postponed/
    Dewani hearing ‘likely to be postponed’
    JOHANNESBURG, SOUTH AFRICA Feb 07 2011 19:53
    comments 2 comments | Post your comment
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    Honeymoon murder accused Shrien Dewani will not be appearing in a London court on Tuesday, South Africa’s justice department said on Monday.

    “His legal representatives have indicated that they have a medical certificate that indicates that he [Dewani] is not fit to appear in court,” justice spokesperson Tlali Tlali said.

    Dewani was due to face an extradition case on Tuesday after his case was postponed in a United Kingdom court on January 20.

    During the last hearing in the City of Westminster Magistrate’s Court, chief magistrate Howard Riddle was told that Dewani was suffering from an acute stress disorder.

    Tlali said that it was up to the court to decide whether it was acceptable that Dewani did not attend the next round of extradition proceedings against him because he was unwell.

    “It is likely that the case will be postponed. The court will have to deal with other issues,” said Tlali. “You always have to exercise patience and respect the due processes of the law.”

    He said the English court would determine on its own how many times the case can be postponed.

    “There is nothing available to us to suggest that the delay is not justified,” said Tlali.

    Charges
    Dewani faces charges of conspiracy to murder, murder, kidnapping, robbery with aggravated circumstances and obstruction of the administration of justice, the UK-based Press Association reported.

    CONTINUES BELOW

    South African authorities are seeking to have Dewani, from Westbury-on-Trym in Bristol, come back to the country to stand trial.

    Anni Dewani, from Sweden, was shot when the newlywed couple’s taxi was allegedly hijacked in Gugulethu on the outskirts of Cape Town on November 13.

    She was found dead in the back of the abandoned vehicle with a bullet wound to her neck.

    Driver Zola Tongo was sentenced to 18 years in prison in South Africa after he submitted a plea agreement that implicated Dewani in an alleged R15 000 hit on Anni. — Sapa

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  193. Does anyone know who is paying the attorneys who are representing the two hijackers?

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  194. This discussion has been absolutely fascinating. Why did it stop in February?

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  195. I believe MadHatters may take credit for the initial emergence of several pieces of information in the early stages of this case. However it got to a point where many of the discussion points were being repeated ad nauseam.
    You can get details of further developments on the “Anni Dewani – What Really Happened” Facebook page.

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