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The Best Argument Against A.V. ?

by duncanr

The UK goes to the polls on May 5th to decide whether to abandon the current ‘first-past-the-post’ system of electing members of parliament in favour of a form of proportional representation called AV (alternative vote)

Critics of AV argue it opens up the possibility of minority parties gaining power

I have not yet decided how I will vote on the matter – though I incline towards voting ‘Yes’ to AV

Having watched these vids of EDL (English Defense League – a white, racist party) supporters , however, I can’t help but share the worry of the ‘Vote No’ campaigners that AV will allow minority parties like this to determine future government policy.

Click Read more tab to view vids . . .

. .

Posted on April 6, 2011 at 10:58 am in aaother   |  RSS feed |   Reply   |   Trackback URL

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20 Responses to “The Best Argument Against A.V. ?”

    
  1. The Debt Collector
    April 6, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    Just a thought Government, isn’t this going to a permanently “hung parliament” and quite the reverse of positive decisions being made; no decision being taken at all.

    It will give everyone the oppourtunity to air their view, but when it comes down to actually getting a decision, whichever way you want call it is going to be even harder. I assume what you mean is Anarchy where there is no control at all, as that to me is what your proposal would lead to.

    And for a change can I receive a constructive reply as opposed to your smoke induced rantings.

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    • NobblySan
      April 6, 2011 at 3:23 pm

      “And for a change can I receive a constructive reply as opposed to your smoke induced rantings.”

      Who are you enquiring of here, DC? Your opening line suggests that you are addressing the government, yet this line suggests that you think you are addressing Peter Reynolds – when you are actually posting on The Mad Hatters.

      I’m confused.

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    • duncanr
      April 6, 2011 at 3:44 pm

      I agree with you regarding ‘hung parliaments’

      The present 1st past the post system denies minority parties (and those whose views they represent) any realistic prospect of exercising any power in Parliament – except in the rare occasions when neither of the two major parties has a working majority and must therefore court the support of minority parties.

      Proportional representation, however, makes it much harder for a single party to obtain a working majority – resulting in a greater likelihood of hung parliaments arising. In that scenario the minority parties who received the least support from the voters end up exercising control way out of proportion to their standing in the polls and end up ‘effectively blackmailing the larger parties into adopting their ideas as the price of their continued support. One only has to look at Israel to see how the 2 major parties are held captive and hamstrung by small, extreme right-wing orthodox religious parties !! !

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  2. The Debt Collector
    April 6, 2011 at 3:31 pm

    Nobbly,

    Your comment is equally confusing, since when I post in it seems to divert to this site. My reply was in direct to a post put up by DuncanR on this “Mad Hatters”, it diverts to Word Press and vice-versa. So I am equally confused.

    Are the two boards operated by the same site managers?

    And again a sensible answer as opposed to the usually sarcastic rant I seem to receive from both you and Duncan.

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  3. NobblySan
    April 6, 2011 at 3:49 pm

    OK….

    ….and with a complete absence of sarcasm.

    The Mad Hatters is a blog run on the wordpress blogging platform, and hosted by WordPress.com. WordPress in itself is neither a blog, nor a board.

    Your reference to ‘smoke induced’ led me to believe that you were addressing Peter Reynolds, who also runs a blog, hosted by WordPress.com, and who, as you know, is an advocate of the benefits of an end to the prohibition of cannabis.

    You do, however still seem to labouring under the huge misconception that Duncanr (who is a co-administrator of the Mad Hatters with myself and Julie) is a user of cannabis. I refuse to enter into further debate with you on this point, as it really up to Duncan himself to argue the point, as he has done in the past.

    We do value your contributions to this blog, but your apparent inability at times to grasp even the simplest of concepts or believe what you are told, is bound to lead to some friction and irritability on our part.

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  4. Julie
    April 6, 2011 at 5:22 pm

    P’raps I should add to the confusion, and add that I ALSO smoked weed …. I think it was about 20 years ago … once !!

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  5. allesklar
    April 6, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    Me 2.

    Mr Straight: “Drugs are for people who can’t handle reality”
    Ms Curvilinear: “No, no, no… Reality is for people who can’t handle drugs”

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    • NobblySan
      April 6, 2011 at 6:23 pm

      To be honest, I think most people have.

      I tried it once, in my early twenties,and decided that it wasn’t for me…. part of the reason being that the whole concept of smoking anything is something that I find repulsive.

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      • duncanr
        April 6, 2011 at 7:00 pm

        I’ve never in my entire life smoked anything – tobacco, weed, or smelly socks 😆

        I’ve always had a contrary streak in me and even when my mates at school were having a fly fag I was never once tempted to try it, despite enormous peer pressure, and for the same reason as you – the very idea of smoking was repulsive

        [My only experience of cannabis – as I’ve said before – was in University days (which was a lot longer ago than Julie’s 20 years 😆 ) when my flatmates added it to brownies or a curry !]

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        • NobblySan
          April 10, 2011 at 11:46 am

          One of my mates from work and college (we’re talking late ’70s here…) was famed for smoking anything. We used to reckon that you if you had rolled some horse shit, or filed the corner off a brick and rolled that, then Ralph would smoke it – doubtless claiming it to be ‘good stuff’.

          He also had his own cannabis plant growing in the office. People would walk up, and ask what it was .

          “A cannabis plant”, Ralph would reply; and they’d walk off shaking their head, not believing him.

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  6. NobblySan
    April 6, 2011 at 6:30 pm

    Meanwhile, back on the subject of AV, and the referendum – I have been scanning the electoral commission document that came through the front door yesterday for weasel words.

    This section immediately caught my eye:-

    If more people vote ‘yes’ than ‘no’, when will
    we start using the ‘alternative vote’ system?
    The ‘alternative vote’ system will be used after
    a review of the boundaries of the area that each
    MP represents (known as their constituency) is
    completed. This is due to happen between 2011
    and 2013. The review will happen regardless of the
    outcome of this referendum.
    At the end of the review, the UK Parliament will vote
    on implementing the new boundaries. If the new
    boundaries are implemented, the ‘alternative vote’
    system will be used for all future elections to the
    House of Commons.

    You will notice that there is no mention of whether AV will be adopted if parliament fail to implement the new constituency boundaries.

    To my cynical little mind, this gives MPs the right to overturn the result of the referendum by voting to keep the existing constituency structure.

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  7. NobblySan
    April 6, 2011 at 6:37 pm

    Huh… I just tried contacting the Electoral commission via their website http://www.aboutmyvote.co.uk to ask the question above.

    ‘Enquiry invalid’ came back the little pop-up response on their contact form.

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  8. NobblySan
    April 6, 2011 at 7:03 pm

    I just watched the video clips……. bloody priceless.

    It’s good to see the Oldham Council logo getting some national exposure – the damn thing cost us taxpayers a small bloody fortune – all to prove that some gullible twat was taken in by a bunch of image consultants.

    The second is fantastic – are you sure it’s genuine, as the audio is so out of sync with the little chav’s mouth?

    All in all, it sums up the level of intelligence needed to be an EDL member.

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  9. Nic Vine
    April 7, 2011 at 6:06 am

    I also had the ‘Enquiry invalid’ response on the aboutmyvote webform – I had put in a long question including quote marks.

    I succeeded in sending a shorter message: “Please can you confirm that if the new boundaries are NOT agreed then a vote for AV will be ignored and AV will not be implemented. ” I’ll let you know when I get a response.

    My longer comment is on my own new blog at nicvine.blogspot.com.

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    • NobblySan
      April 7, 2011 at 9:05 am

      Cheers, Nic.

      I reckon we won’t be the only ones asking the question.

      I did try to comment on your blog, but couldn’t find a suitable profile under which to post my comment.

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  10. Nic Vine
    April 13, 2011 at 1:47 pm

    So here’s the reply I received today from the Electoral Commission (NobblySan, I’ll check out the comment posting on my blog, thanks for noting)
    —

    Dear Nic Vine

    Thank you for your email to the Electoral Commission.

    The review of boundaries and the referendum are linked as they were in the same Bill. If there is a yes vote in the referendum then the legislation provides for AV to be introduced. However, under the same legislation, this cannot happen until Parliament has approved the Boundary Commission’s recommendations to alter parliamentary boundaries. Because the two issues are in the same Bill, AV would not be introduced until new boundaries had been approved. Therefore you are correct in thinking that if the new boundaries are not approved, the AV system of voting would not be introduced.

    Please let me know if you require any further information.

    Kind regards

    Leigh Gravenor
    Public Information Officer
    The Electoral Commission
    3 Bunhill Row
    London EC1Y 8YZ
    Tel: 020 7271 0707
    Fax: 020 7271 0505
    http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk
    http://www.aboutmyvote.co.uk

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  11. Nic Vine
    April 13, 2011 at 2:15 pm

    NobblySan, I fixed my Blog so anyone can comment – thanks.

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  12. NobblySan
    April 13, 2011 at 6:43 pm

    Thanks Nic.

    Just as we all suspected, then….. us proles can have a referendum, paid for from our own tax quids, and then a bunch of self-serving, sanctimonious, patronising twats can ignore it.

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  13. The Debt Collector
    April 13, 2011 at 7:40 pm

    I agree Nobbly, the biggest problem is :

    1. The turn out.
    2. Whether the Adinistration/Government will take any notice if the reply goes against what they wan to do.

    The last referendum we had about the (then) EEC had a turnout of less than 40%.

    With such a corrup administration that we have today, can we be sure that the referendum will not be rigged to read whatever what the coalition, or any Government for that matter want to do. So may be a high turnout may not make the slightest difference. And as you say all this “consultation” paid for by Fred Bloggs.

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